Board index » General Forum




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: bridge toaster pup without the .0047 cap?
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:54 am
Posts: 7
Location: SLC
has anyone installed their bridge position 7.4k toaster without the .0047 cap on the hot lead? does it even out the levels between the pickups more? does the bridge pup still have the vintage "magic"?

i'm replacing the hi-gains in my 330 for toasters because the hi-gains are just way too hard sounding to me. they have too much output, too much mids and lows, and too much boom.

i know the .0047 cap is "traditional", but i don't really care about that. i just want the two toasters to match up level-wise as much as possible, while still giving me that bright, compressed jangle. i've heard the cap is what makes the bridge quieter than the neck in regards to toasters, thus my question.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: bridge toaster pup without the .0047 cap?
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:07 am
Posts: 3868
There will be slightly less jangle, because not only does the .0047 cap cut lows, it also changes the phase of the signal 90 degrees above the "hinge frequency" of the capacitor. OTOH, some like the blend of the toasters better without the cap. When I do my mods on a guitar, the cap is out when the pushpull is up so that the bridge and mid can be played together in the center position of the selector switch, and it results in a rather "sweet" tone.

Yes, not only the capacitor, but because the bridge pickup is just that - closer to the bridge - there is less string excursion over the pickup, therefore less interaction with the magnetic field of the pickup, and therefore less output compared to the neck pickup. It is still a little bit that way without the cap.

Not just because I have a mod diagram for such, because I'll send it to you just for the asking, but because of the added versatility: I like adding the push-pull so you can have your choice as you desire from song to song, either in or out with the cap.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: bridge toaster pup without the .0047 cap?
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:54 am
Posts: 7
Location: SLC
wow, thanks for the helpful info. great stuff!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: bridge toaster pup without the .0047 cap?
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:54 am
Posts: 7
Location: SLC
iiipopes,

i emailed you at the address on your profile so you could send me that wiring schem. thanks again for your help!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: bridge toaster pup without the .0047 cap?
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:22 am
Posts: 20
Location: Wrong Coast
I have a 1971 320. The PUs have ohm'd @

Mid: 15.40k
Neck:15.51k
Bridge:6.50k

Is that normal? - I don't know if the PUs were modded before my ownership.

Would capacitors across (with pull pot mod added) the 2 hotter PUs bring own the hotness in line with the bridge PU?

Thanks.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: bridge toaster pup without the .0047 cap?
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:07 am
Posts: 3868
Quote:
I have a 1971 320. The PUs have ohm'd @

Mid: 15.40k
Neck:15.51k
Bridge:6.50k

Is that normal? - I don't know if the PUs were modded before my ownership.

Would capacitors across (with pull pot mod added) the 2 hotter PUs bring own the hotness in line with the bridge PU?

Thanks.

Yes. That is normal. Rickenbacker went through a phase of "maximum contrast," with the bridge underwound for the brightest tone possible, and the neck overwound for the darkest tone possible. My early '80's 320 was like that, but I had two 6.2's in the bridge and mid and a 14 in the neck. My early 80's 360-12WB FG ckbd was also like that, with a 6.2 in the bridge and a 14 in the neck.

If you don't like the tonality of your guitar (i.e. the bridge sounds too thin), there are several options. The best is to just purchase a new set of pickups. Another option is to switch the mid and neck pickups, and leave the mid pickup out of the circuit entirely (remember, stock wiring has the neck and mid pickups together in the "up" position of the selector switch).

I went to the extreme and unwound the overwinds down to get clarity. One had opened up and had to be completely rewound, so I have all three 6.2's in the 320 for a very bright jangly guitar and the other two pickups rewound to @ 7.4 to 8 kohms in the 12-string for a really good bright but still round tone.

In any event, the conventional wisdom is to save the original pickups in case you want to sell it, and do mods only to other RIC pickups you can change out and not affect the "originality" of the instrument.

Of course, I have also rewired my guitars with my push-pull mods to have the cap in or out and to do either/or on the neck & mid pickup of the 320, and, of course, I think those mods sound really great. I'd be happy to send you a pdf of them.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: bridge toaster pup without the .0047 cap?
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:54 am
Posts: 7
Location: SLC
so i finally got my toaster pickups and installed them. before going through with the push/pull mod, i tried the toaster wired straight in and was surprised by the power of the pickups. the guitar sounded a lot like my tele, but with more low mids that struck me as borderline un-musical and woofy. then i temp wired in the .0047 cap to see how that sounded and my mind was blown. instant "my generation" and "hard days night" tones. and the best part? the bridge pickup doesn't sound thin at all to me. it sounded too woofy, so the cap just made it sound perfectly balanced from top to bottom with that cool sparkle on top that wasn't there without the cap. also, i don't understand why, but it tamed the neck pickup so it sounded nice and strat-ish whereas before the cap it was pure mud.

basically, i liked the cap tone so much, i knew right away i had no need for the mod. i ordered two ric push/pull pots for the mod (had to set the minimum $20 order) that i now don't need. if anyone wants to buy them for practically nothing, let me know. i won't be using them and i hate when stuff sits around.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: bridge toaster pup without the .0047 cap?
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:07 am
Posts: 3868
Comb filtering. Nobody understands the full effects of comb filtering. It's one of the reasons why the two pickups together without the cap sound like mud. With the cap doing two things, 1) getting rid of the lows so they don't go out of phase from the physical separation of the pickups, and 2) changing the phase of the signal 90 degrees above the "hinge" frequency supplying a bit of natural chorusing, the inline cap is indespensible to RIC jangle.

The inline cap, just like Harley-Davidson motorcycles, Springfield, Missouri-style Chinese-inspired cuisine, and traveling to London, is one of those things that, if you understand, you understand and life is great; and if I have to explain, then you just wouldn't understand, anyway.

Welcome to the true jangle.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: bridge toaster pup without the .0047 cap?
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:58 am
Posts: 1346
Location: En Zed
Quote:
Comb filtering. Nobody understands the full effects of comb filtering.


Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say "nobody"... ;-)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: bridge toaster pup without the .0047 cap?
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:33 am
Posts: 3403
Location: Denver
Quote:
but with more low mids that struck me as borderline un-musical and woofy.


Yeah, that's kind of how I hear it as well. *However!*, it is really nice to be able to switch back and forth even if one is your clear favorite... at least for me, as a bass player. Musical context is always changing us bassists, so for me it is really handy to be able to optimize my tone for the project I am working in. There are a lot of tones--such as the tone without the capacitor in-line and both pickups on--that I don't like on their own, but when they come out of a mixing board I prefer them. Other times, that's not the case. Basically, I'm arguing that you may still want to make the capacitor switchable.


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

Board index » General Forum


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 8 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ
X