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 Post subject: Re: Sticky Gummy Finish on 1999 UNPLAYED 4003 CurlyMaple Fir
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:00 pm
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Location: dallas texas
I read this sad story on TalkBass, and still feel bad for you and that bass. After much further thought, I agree with everyone who suggests leaving it out of the case for an extended period to allow it to re-cure. I used to leave my 620 in it's case alot, but won't anymore- and my basses are always out ready to play. Such a drag this happened to you, hope it gets better.


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 Post subject: Re: Sticky Gummy Finish on 1999 UNPLAYED 4003 CurlyMaple Fir
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:42 pm 
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Location: Australia
Yes I'm hoping that beautiful guitars finish is OK, that is the main concern. I'm still curious as to why or what happen inside that case that laid dormant for many years and then decides to present itself. Glue and fabric contain a plethora of chemicals, all have a signature.
It is impossible to know what these chemicals do when then combine with other chemicals.
Chemicals alter and can react over time. I know fabric started to have fire retardant chemicals added in the last 15 years but that has become more wide spread. It maybe very hard to ascertain what happened in your case!

I have heard that it was only 3 years after they started producing a certain fire retard chemical
it's signature was found in ice deposit in Antarctica, A reminder that we share the same Atmosphere and biosphere on a small planet!


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 Post subject: Re: Sticky Gummy Finish on 1999 UNPLAYED 4003 CurlyMaple Fir
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:30 pm 
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Hi everyone...I have also posted about this problem on the talkbass as well as on RickResource. A few other people have had this same problem...leaving the instruments in these foamed style cases seems to be a common theme. Here are links to extensive discussions on those two forums:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/sticky ... lo-821329/

http://www.rickresource.com/forum/viewt ... 2&t=403183


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 Post subject: Re: Sticky Gummy Finish on 1999 UNPLAYED 4003 CurlyMaple Fir
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:33 pm 
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cjj wrote:
Is this the only one in an SKB case? When you got it, are you sure it had never been opened by someone at the store you bought it from? Probably not likely, but if someone took it out at the store and then wiped it down with something...


As I stated in the original post, all three basses were purchased at the same time, all produced in the same month, and all three are in the SKB style case. They are all stored within a few feet of each other in the same climate controlled room. All basses were sealed in their factory boxes upon receipt from AMS; they were all sealed with staples. They had not been opened from the time they left Rickenbacker to the time I received them. The affected bass has NEVER been wiped down with anything. It has not had a full song played on it. It was kept as a time capsule NOS.


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 Post subject: Re: Sticky Gummy Finish on 1999 UNPLAYED 4003 CurlyMaple Fir
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:39 pm 
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jbudweiser wrote:
Can you remember the last time you opened that particular case, it's taken 10 years and now something in the case may have had a chem reaction ( that sounds like a time bomb!). Lucky it is a problem only confined to this case and guitar, as you do own very valuable instruments and take care of them as such. It is very good you posted as perhaps it may alert others if they have this same case! Surely yours would not be the only one! Prevention is better than cure, now you have warned us we can watch out. This is why it would be good to find out why this case reacted as it maybe a generic problem with one style of case and it lies dormant and then goes off like a delayed reaction, a time bomb ( Holy cow that's diabolical) I bet you got a hell of a shock when you opened it this time and saw that. Your post stands well as a warning to anyone with this model cases, so thanks!

I wonder if it was a chemical reaction that caused either heat or gas, not just only direct contact, not likely just a guess. CJJ suggestion was good maybe someone wiped it down in the shop,,,,,but you would think in that circumstance it would have shown up prior.

That case seems to have patients


The last time this bass was taken out was about 4 years ago to show a friend the grain after telling him about it for some time. At that time it didn't exhibit any symptoms. It was only out for a matter of minutes. It was not played nor held by anyone but myself. Even though it didn't show symptoms at that time, I'm guessing that the breakdown had already started on a microscopic level. I surmise that this process is very slow and gradual, and that without regularly "airing out" the case by opening it causes something to outgas and eat the original finish.

I also want to add that only a handful of my basses are kept NOS as time-capsules. The other two basses purchased at this time, while spending literally years in their cases, have not been with the intention of keeping them NOS. They have been played and used. And, while mint, they have been opened from time to time. However, the other fireglo HAS been stored for the last 4 years next to the afflicted one...same style case, and no problems with the finish...yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Sticky Gummy Finish on 1999 UNPLAYED 4003 CurlyMaple Fir
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:51 pm 
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maxwell wrote:
davidj4 wrote:
I should have mentioned that a tiny amount of water on a cloth followed by a wipe-down with a soft cloth eliminates it till next time.


So, how long does it take for this phenomenom to recur ("till next time")?

I'd wipe it down so that you are sure there is no residual defective surface layer, and then keep it in an entirely different type of case for the time that it would take for the problem to show up again, and then check and see what codition it's in.

Perhaps this bass has a different, more unique finish/type than your other guitars.... nitro, perhaps? Does this report mirror your situation?
http://www.frets.com/fretspages/Musician/GenMaint/Vinyl/vinyl.html

So, no, I wouldn't put it back in the same case again, even to confirm a theory... Invest in a nice, more traditional/older style case, or an aluminum heavy-duty type.

Well, I stummbled across this.... http://www.tdpri.com/forum/finely-finished/268881-soft-sticky-finish-2006-rick.html The author's user name (Rebopper) does not show up here in a search, but "conversion varnish" does, earlier this year, in fact....
http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/search.php?keywords=conversion+varnish&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search



The bass' finish is not only sticky, but it has alternating areas of gloss/semi-gloss splotchiness in the finish. Most affected is the back of the headstock between the tuning keys where it's never been touched by me. Wiping it down with distilled water might make some of the stickiness feel go away, but it's not going to fix the splotchiness. Under the top clearcoat you can see splotchiness underneath...as if different areas are attacked more aggressively. Ironically, areas that touch against the case's lining directly (such as the majority of the back of the bass) aren't as affected as areas that are untouched. The fretboard is sticky, soft, and semi-glossy as well.

The case doesn't have any weird smell.

However, what makes me suspect the case is that the tailpiece had fibers on it from the case, and they were STUCK on the chrome...as in possible glue residue...sticky goo. I had to use a fingernail to get it off. At first I figured this was because the bass has been stored upright with all it's weight on this portion of the bass, so the bass sits tightly against the case on the tailpiece. But...after 12 years you would think the case materials would have cured. So, I have no doubt that the weight of the bass on this point contributed to the fibers being stuck to the tailpiece, but I think the case's chemicals in the plastic caused the goo to hold the fibers onto the chrome tailpiece. However, it should be noted that the bass itself does not have any residue on it...the stickiness on the bass is actually the finish on the bass itself, for it is soft enough for the weight of your fingernail to leave an imprint in it. Something has reacted with the finish...seems like it must be the case itself. The chrome on the tailpiece as well as on the entire bass has no signs of corrosion, and no pitting. The goo residue and case fibers came off without damaging the chrome in any way.

Only a handful of my basses are kept as timepieces...this curly Fireglo, a '99 figured maple V63, a fireglo C64, a couple seagreens, and one each of my blueboys and bluebursts. The V63, C64, and seagreens are all in the vintage style case. They stopped the case option, so all of my blueboys and bluebursts are in the SKB style case. I have transferred one each of the blueboys and bluebursts into Fender tweed old school plywood style cases for the time being. So far, all my other basses are unaffected...but I haven't had a chance to check every single one.


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 Post subject: Re: Sticky Gummy Finish on 1999 UNPLAYED 4003 CurlyMaple Fir
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:38 pm 
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Location: Australia
HFb'sll Glad to hear no other instrument has been affected, I read your posts re your attempts to find a cause
Yes is unusual that even the chrome tail piece felt tacky, it does seem to point to the fabric and /or the remaining inner layer as the culprit. I can imagine from your description, what the finish does look like now, mirror finish and then patches of Matte finish. As if someone placed a cloth on certain sections just prior to the the finish curing! Is it very noticeable? There's still remains a few questions re why this case seems to have reacted with your guitar, but I think it would take a forensic expect to solve. It maybe wise to put something else in that case or just toss it! Maybe an insurance claim is in order!


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 Post subject: Re: Sticky Gummy Finish on 1999 UNPLAYED 4003 CurlyMaple Fir
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:32 pm 
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Interesting.

This has happened to two of my guitars. One a fireglo 650C in the "SKB" case and the other a 325V63, also with a fireglo finish but in a "vintage" style silver case.

According to their serial numbers the 650C is from week 4 2007 and the 325V63 is from week 16 2000.

The only commonality is that they have the same color finish and all of my guitars are well played and cared for.

Both guitars had this occur while in the case in between being played (two weeks at the most) and had only ever been cleaned with the RIC cloth all of their lives.

I think the cases are the cause, but it is interesting to me that the 325 had this occur to it only about two years ago, whilst the 650 had this happen within about a year and half after purchase. Both guitars were brand new when I got them.

I found that the guitars could be cleaned of the gunky sticky film but it took a lot of long, hard hand rubbing ...

None of my other guitars (Rickenbackers as well as others) have had this happen, yet.

Warning - if you put the guitars back in the case, it will happen again. What I did was wait for a long hot dry summers day and stick the cases out to air, in slight shade, for a day. It seems to have "fixed" it for the time being.


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 Post subject: Re: Sticky Gummy Finish on 1999 UNPLAYED 4003 CurlyMaple Fir
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:52 pm
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Location: Australia
Thanks for the input. So it can possibly happen in both style of case. Also on two different models and one is fairly new! The original posters guitar was a M' Glo, so it does seem to want to keep pointing to the cases. Your info has shed more light on this sticky finish mystery, as we were starting to believe it was perhaps just one type of SKB case that could cause this.

Thanks for the Warning and advice. If any of my cases do that to any of my Ric's I'll freak! You'll probably hear me!


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 Post subject: Re: Sticky Gummy Finish on 1999 UNPLAYED 4003 CurlyMaple Fir
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:24 am 
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Location: Georgia
When I got my '09 Ric, brand new in July (MF had it in their warehouse since '09 - Poor baby didn't get an owner for almost two years), and when I opened the case, there was the little bits off fiber/fuzz you speak of. I don't know why, but I have also bought new vinyl albums that haven't been opened in years - They also had mysterious fibers on them. One even had the audacity to skip a little on me.


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