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 Post subject: buzz feiten query
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:30 am
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Location: UK
Hi,I have read the buzz feiten patent (freely available on the internet through patent databases such as espacenet).undoubtedly this works and produces a sweeter tuning on a fretted guitar. but..

1/ adjustment is made to the nut
2/adjustment is made to the bridge saddles to intonate slightly out of normal position

So , if you play a barre chord, the nut adjustment becomes irrelevant, leaving only the bridge adjustment in the equation of the 'buzz feiten system' . This , gentlemen , we can all do , for free with the use of a digital tuner !!

I think I have the theory correct here, the only downside is the open position chords will be slightly out, but not so that you would notice , as you would still tune the guitar to the open chord .


Any thoughts on this from some feiten experts ??


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 Post subject: Good point!
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:23 am
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Interesting point, Neil – looking forward to responses from those au fait with this approach, particularly as I'd been giving it some thought in relation to some of my 6-strings that don't intonate as well as others.

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 Post subject: Re: buzz feiten query
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:10 am 
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Location: Chicago, IL
I have no experience with the Feiten system, but I would say your logic is sound. Over the years, I have come to trust my ears over anything else. Guitars are inherently tricky to find the "least bad" intonation compromise. With a bit of experimentation, I have come up with the best intonation adjustment (to my ears) for each guitar of mine. I have taken advantage of the custom temperaments available in the Peterson Strobostomp tuner to consistently dial in the best state of tune on my bowtie bridge-equipped 325c58. Similar to what you've described, I deliberately tuned my G five cents flat to make up for the bridge's fixed compensation (which is meant for standard-scale instruments. This is in conjunction with positioning the bridge for perfect 12th fret intonation of the E strings). To my ears, having the open G slightly flat is far superior to have every fretted note sharp!

So regardless of what you decide, I'd recommend you keep experimenting and find what works best for you. Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Good point!
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:36 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:08 pm
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Location: Jackson, Mississippi
should this be merged with this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14891

{Moderator: done!}


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 Post subject: Re: buzz feiten query
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:56 pm 
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I've had or played all the above: "compensated" string scales, Buzz Feiten nut, Microfrets adjustible nut, and my favorite: individual string nut shims. The only one I have not tried is the "Earvana" nut.

The problem is string stretch. This is common to all guitars regardless of brand or model -- some more, some less. Near the nut, there is more stretch for the length of string between the fret and the nut and it can cause the fretted notes to be sharp. This is usually more noticable with larger core strings, like low E strings and plain G strings. So ideally, all guitars should have some compensation for the string stretch at the nut as well as the bridge so all frets are in tune for all strings. This is another reason why I don't play plain G 3rd strings: they pull sharp. B strings can as well, and we've all heard wobbly 1st position D chords, but not so much.

But...it is string specific. If a player prefers to have a higher action at the nut, then the instrument may need some sort of nut compensation for scale length in addition to the bridge compensation. I have one guitar that when I use regular roundwounds, I have to put a shim on the low E string nut so the G 3rd fret doesn't go sharp. With flats, it doesn't go sharp. Go figure. I have a bass that has no nut shim on the G, and then increasing thicknesses on the D, A and E strings, with the E string shim being almost as wide as the nut itself.


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 Post subject: Re: buzz feiten query
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:10 pm
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Location: Georgia
All that is fixed by properly stretching the strings from the beginning, though.

I find the strings hold in tune better by tuning them all up a note or two, and pulling on them so they go flat. As they go flat, you tune them back up to the sharp note until the pulling no longer affects them. This is all void if you don't properly wrap the strings around the poles before pushing them through the hole, though.

In some cases, the tuners may not be good enough, though. It's important to make sure they're not loose, but not too tight.


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 Post subject: Re: buzz feiten query
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:42 am 
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Ain'tGotNoPokemon wrote:
All that is fixed by properly stretching the strings from the beginning, though.


I don't believe that's what iiipopes is talking about. He's referring to fretted notes sounding out of tune due to deflection, especially on first position chords (being that they're close to the nut).


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 Post subject: Re: buzz feiten query
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:23 am 
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kylek350 wrote:
Ain'tGotNoPokemon wrote:
All that is fixed by properly stretching the strings from the beginning, though.


I don't believe that's what iiipopes is talking about. He's referring to fretted notes sounding out of tune due to deflection, especially on first position chords (being that they're close to the nut).

Umm??? I'm not trying to enter a debate with Popes or you.


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 Post subject: Re: buzz feiten query
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:35 pm 
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Hey, iiipopes, what do these individual nut shims look like? I've never heard of doing that before.


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 Post subject: Re: buzz feiten query
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:05 am 
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
neilcoates wrote:
So , if you play a barre chord, the nut adjustment becomes irrelevant, leaving only the bridge adjustment in the equation of the 'buzz feiten system'...


No that's wrong... The tuning relationship between all the strings of the guitar is determined by the overall length of each string from where the strings leave the nut until they hit the bridge - and this mutual tonal distance is kept all the way up no matter where you put a barre. Your index finger in a barre chord produces an exact copy of the nut tonewise except in different keys.


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