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 Post subject: 1964 Rickenbacker 325 Black Solid Top
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:08 pm 
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Hello,

I am the current owner of this guitar, serial # DG949.

My understanding from thorough studies conducted by four independent sources (luthier: William Young, appraiser: Blue Book Inc., my Insurer, and my personal luthier/tech with 40+ years experience dealing with rare vintage guitars including Rickebackers) is that this guitar is indeed genuine. In addition, having personally owned a fairly large number of rare vintage and reissue Rickenbackers, including a 1964 RM 1996 (and a/b-ing the Black solid top side-by-side and inside-and-out with the 1996), my opinion is also that this guitar is genuine 1964 factory Black solid-top. Finally, I had an opportunity to carefully question the seller of this guitar (who has a sizable vintage Rickenbacker collection) and no "red flags" were raised on my radar.

However, one 325 expert (Glen Lambert) has just publicly stated on another Forum that this guitar is a "fake" based on some tuner bushings and bridge screws? (Could these parts have been changed over the last 48 years? Sure, but does that make the whole guitar a fake?). In fact, during my due diligence a couple of years ago, I had contacted Mr. Lambert (at the same time I contacted all the other experts) for his opinion. At that time, Mr. Lambert said he would simply not authenticate this guitar without proof from Rickenbacker. Fair enough.

I felt that FOUR independent opinions (plus mine) were enough to authenticate this rare guitar. While I can understand a healthy dose of skepticism is good for authentication purposes, Mr. Lambert is now carrying things too far by explicitly labeling this guitar a fake. Over the last few months, he has taken it upon himself to place negative posts about this guitar on different Forums - without providing any real detailed proof. Since he is publicly acknowledged as a vintage 325 expert, I feel compelled to take some further action.

Although I really hate to take up John Hall's valuable time, however due to the rarity and historical significance of a 1964 Black Solid Top 325, I would like to respectfully request any help that Mr. Hall could provide. Perhaps a look through the 1964 serial number log? Of course, I stand ready to provide any further information/photo's that may be required.

Thank you, in advance, for any help!

Joshua Noyes


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 Post subject: Re: 1964 Rickenbacker 325 Black Solid Top
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Unfortunately, I refuse to be dragged into authentication contests, so you're pretty much on your own. As a practical matter, anything I say would be disputed by 10 other people anyway.

I did take a quick look at the serial records and DG949 is the serial number of an instrument we produced. Unfortunately, to find an invoice or warehouse receipt would require more time than is available, as the records are all paper and not perfectly sorted.


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 Post subject: Re: 1964 Rickenbacker 325 Black Solid Top
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Mr. Hall,

Thank you so much for your speedy reply. It's much appreciated!

Thank you, also, for taking the time to look through the serial log to confirm that DG949 was indeed an instrument produced by Rickenbacker.

I completely understand, and respect, your desire to not get involved further with regard to confirmation of the specific model/specs that carried the DG949 serial number when it originally left the factory.

I felt that, in the isolated case of this particular guitar, an effort should be made by myself to outreach to you so that no (reasonable) stone is left unturned.

All things carefully considered, I shall continue to side with the four experts who have concluded this guitar is indeed a 1964 factory Black Solid Top 325.

Thank you, again, for your quick attention! I look forward to participating in the RIC Forum.

Best Regards,

Josh


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 Post subject: Re: 1964 Rickenbacker 325 Black Solid Top
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:34 am 
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beatboy77 wrote:
All things carefully considered, I shall continue to side with the four experts who have concluded this guitar is indeed a 1964 factory Black Solid Top 325


Well, I will go out on a limb and say that you may not yet have found real experts that many would give credence to. Mathew Hill, Rebecca Apodaca, or a few others with AMIS or museum credentials would be the kind of expert that serious collectors of instruments in this class would trust.


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 Post subject: Re: 1964 Rickenbacker 325 Black Solid Top
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:34 am 
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Mr. Hall,

Thank you, again, for reply!

I really do appreciate you taking the time to provide your input.

I will reach out to Mathew Hill and Rebecca Apodaca and see if they can offer any assistance.

Thank you, again!

Josh


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 Post subject: Re: 1964 Rickenbacker 325 Black Solid Top
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:49 am
Posts: 7
Location: Eastern Va
Josh, John Hall is correct in responding that you must have your guitar authenticated by people who have the proper credentials. In all my years as a restorer/repairman,
I have seen many older guitars which, as the wood dried out some and shrunk, the tuner bushings would literally fall out. Also, the bridge with it's many parts and screws is vulnerable to corrosion and again, parts just coming loose over time. As a result, the corroded and missing parts get replaced to keep the guitar playable. People just don't think to go around their instrument and snug down screws. I have seen countless numbers of old/vintage guitars whose open back tuners were missing parts as the screws loosened from use and the gear retaining screws and sometimes, the gears themselves would be missing. Do whatever you need to do to verify your guitars' provenance.


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 Post subject: Re: 1964 Rickenbacker 325 Black Solid Top
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:44 pm 
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FabGearHead wrote:
Josh, John Hall is correct in responding that you must have your guitar authenticated by people who have the proper credentials. In all my years as a restorer/repairman,
I have seen many older guitars which, as the wood dried out some and shrunk, the tuner bushings would literally fall out. Also, the bridge with it's many parts and screws is vulnerable to corrosion and again, parts just coming loose over time. As a result, the corroded and missing parts get replaced to keep the guitar playable. People just don't think to go around their instrument and snug down screws. I have seen countless numbers of old/vintage guitars whose open back tuners were missing parts as the screws loosened from use and the gear retaining screws and sometimes, the gears themselves would be missing. Do whatever you need to do to verify your guitars' provenance.


Thank you for your input. I am indeed in the process of reaching out to various certified individuals who may be qualified to authenticate my guitar. All the best!

Josh


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 Post subject: Re: 1964 Rickenbacker 325 Black Solid Top
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:13 pm 
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I wanted to provide this update on my findings for anyone following this thread. I have now spent a fair amount of time talking to various "credentialed" experts and learned much about their authentication methods.

First, during this process, a second appraiser has now also authenticated in writing that my guitar is indeed a rare factory original Black solid-top from 1964.

Second, some of the "credentialed" experts I contacted told me that the authentication I have already secured should be sufficient (as they were familiar with the work of the appraisal service providers I used) but the appraised value is conservative and likely on the lower side. However, if I still wanted to proceed with them, the quotes for their services varied with the lowest around $3,500+, not including secure transportation of my guitar to their facility and back.

Since I have taken all reasonable steps, and am personally satisfied that my guitar is a rare factory original Black solid-top from 1964, I cannot justify spending any more of my own time and money re-verifying what I already know.

However, due to the historical nature of this guitar, I feel its fair that if any interested parties/experts wish to come forward and pursue an additional level of "credentialed" authentication using their own time and money, I would certainly consider making my guitar available.

Regards,

Josh


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 Post subject: Re: 1964 Rickenbacker 325 Black Solid Top
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:12 am 
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Congrats on confirming a great guitar.


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 Post subject: Re: 1964 Rickenbacker 325 Black Solid Top
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:23 pm 
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Location: Australia
You obviously put much effort into verifying this guitar authenticity, I'm so glad it was a positive outcome for you. With the inclusion of a serial number confirmed by Mr Hall, then this now provides more evidence of authenticity. That was fantastic Mr Hall was able to find that serial number in older production records. Good on John Hall for providing you that info!

As for the tuners being replaced, in no way is strong evidence a guitar is fake. There are obvious reasons why a guitar of this age may have replaced tuners of a different brand. Jacks and even jack plates may get replaced, Rickenbacker serial number are on the jack plate. It's great that your guitar has the original though! To prove if something is real or fake an expert would rely on many indices not just turners or replaceable parts.

If you have 5 or 6 experts saying it's real and 1 saying it's fake, then majority rules. There's always one in the crowd that like to be different or to the contrary ;) . Anyway someone giving you the notion it maybe fake only compelled you to investigate more, that's not such a bad thing :) . I'm glad to hear you did most of the 'digging' obviously to send someone with a museum designation on a 'dig' it's WOW factor expensive.

Oh yes I can see why someone deeming your guitar a fake a real affront to your senses, indeed.


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