Rickenbacker International Corporation - Forum
http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/

HB1's in a 4003 = low volume
http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11739
Page 2 of 2

Author:  cassius987 [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HB1's in a 4003 = low volume

Parallel out-of-phase should be a rough approximate of a Jazz Bass at 100% VV in terms of how the tone changes.

Author:  BlueAngel [ Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HB1's in a 4003 = low volume

Quote:
Parallel out-of-phase should be a rough approximate of a Jazz Bass at 100% VV in terms of how the tone changes.
No, not at all. A Jazz Bass is parallel in phase. The two pickups are RWRP so they are hum-cancelling, but they are still in phase - that's the whole point of RWRP. (And the pickups are much further apart compared to the two coils in a humbucker.)

Parallel out of phase with two widely spaced pickups sounds like a Fender Mustang with the switches pointing in opposite directions - you can easily compare it to the in phase sound with both switches pointing the same way. Contrary to popular myth, a Strat is *not* out of phase in the 2 and 4 positions either...

Author:  cassius987 [ Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HB1's in a 4003 = low volume

Oh, my bad.

Author:  iiipopes [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HB1's in a 4003 = low volume

On my custom bass I matched the HB-1 with another hum cancelling pickup from another manufacturer. I literally had to try every single wiring variation to find the one that matched both the coil direction and the magnet polarity so the two pickups would function together.

And I still had the impedance drop with a "thin" bottom when both were full on, so I put the .0047 inline capacitor in the bridge pickup and no more bottom dropping out when both pickups are full on. The tradeoff is a little less output from the bridge pickup, but I use the bridge pickup for color, not volume, anyways, so it works for me.

Even though a multi-single-coil pickup guitar is not electrically out of phase, you could say that the pickups are mechanically out of phase, which causes comb filtering, since they're not both in exactly the same spot, so harmonics phase differently over the different pickups.

Author:  BlueAngel [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HB1's in a 4003 = low volume

Quote:
Even though a multi-single-coil pickup guitar is not electrically out of phase, you could say that the pickups are mechanically out of phase, which causes comb filtering, since they're not both in exactly the same spot, so harmonics phase differently over the different pickups.
That's exactly true, and in fact what guitar/bass people mean by 'phase' in this context is actually *polarity*. Unlike phase, which is defined by a 'phase angle' of anywhere between 0º and 360º, polarity only has two states. Common polarity is sort-of equivalent to in phase, and opposite polarity is sort-of equivalent to 180º out of phase, but that's really an oversimplification - you would need to define which harmonics are being compared for it to be accurate.

What's important for this discussion is that when two pickups are in common polarity, the *fundamental* is in phase for both, no matter where they are on the string. This is why pickups "in phase" (ie common polarity) sound strong and full - because the fundamental from each is added - and pickups "out of phase" (ie opposite polarity) sound hollow and much quieter - because the fundamental is subtracted.

Is that less, or more, confusing? :-)

When mixing pickups from different manufacturers, it's not at all uncommon to have to reverse both entire pickups or separate coils (and occasionally even magnets), for them to work together properly 'in phase', especially in instruments with splittable humbuckers - because reversing the whole pickup changes which coil is in use when split! This can get very complicated... there really is no 'standard' polarity, every maker has their own ideas. If you want a real laugh, try fitting a Duncan and a DiMarzio into a PRS with the rotary multi-split selector switch, and still end up with the correct coils on in each setting and them all hum-cancelling :-). (Not to mention that these two makers use the same four colors in their hook-up cables, but wired differently!!)

Author:  iiipopes [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HB1's in a 4003 = low volume

Hey BA -- thanks. Of course, it is that comb filtering that makes electric guitar tones in the "middle" position interesting.

Somewhere out there are charts you can find on the internet that arbitrarily pick a coil wind direction and magnet polarity and then compare the standard wiring of the major aftermarket manufacturers of passive humbuckers as to which color wire on which coil has the same winding direction and magnet polarity so a person can mix-and-match pickups. Of course, a RIC HB-1 is not on the list, and so the experimentation went, and was finally successful.

Author:  iiipopes [ Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HB1's in a 4003 = low volume

Hey, Ko -- what are you going to do with your Barts? I have another application that I might be interested in them for. Send me an email off-forum. Thanks.

Author:  vulcom_creedler [ Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HB1's in a 4003 = low volume

Hi - I posted recently in the technical section, my similar findings.

I have a recent hi-gain in the bridge pickup position, and I popped an HB1 in the neck.

In conjunction with Rickysounds (in the UK, from whom I bought the HB1) our thoughts were that the 2 pickups were out of phase. Individually, either pickup sounded great, but together, a major loss of volume.

Since the High Gain in the bridge only has shield and live feed, I couldn't rewire that one, so I simply reversed the red and blue connections on the HB1. I must admit, I didn't check on the PCB of the HB1 to see if the cable was properly attached, I had no reason to suspect that it was wrong) but the effect of reversing the phase of the HB1 made a vast improvement. The bass has it's balls back (and more!)

So - assuming the PCB was soldered correctly, I can only assume that the HB1s and the High Gains are naturally out-of-phase!

Anyhow - all sorted now!

Page 2 of 2 All times are UTC - 8 hours
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/