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 Post subject: Re: McGuinn adjusts his 12
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 189
Location: New York City
Although he doesn't play a Ric, but rather a Taylor, Leo Kottke tunes his 12-string down a full 1 1/2 (!) steps. He then uses medium guage strings. I wonder how this would work on a Ric. Of course, it'd be impossible to tune the guitar to standard tuning, lest one run the risk of damamging the instrument. I do this with my Taylor 12-string, too, and I can tell you that it produces a MASSIVE sound. Tuning it down just 1 full step would make on-the-fly transposition easier than if the guitar were tuned 1 1/2 steps down. Anyway, just a thought.


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 Post subject: Re: McGuinn adjusts his 12
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
(John, this is Dan Shubin--be especially interested in your observations)

I'm old--53--which means bigger finger pads and a touch of arthritis from basketball. This affects my comfort level with my 360/12V64. I perceive it as a string-tension problem.
I remember vividly as a 14 year old with my first 330/12 (the band had 2) how the tension on the strings at standard pitch (EADGBE) felt like butter. We played Byrds' songs and just ranked on the strings with no problem--unfortunately that first 330/12 is long gone for comparison. I have recently run across older 330s that have the same feel. In fact, I had one shop set up my 360/12V64 "just like that 330 on the wall..." and still do not have that feel of tension slack. My six-strings are loaded with .0095s and .010s--it's not a strength problem.

Was there something different about the 330/12 in 1964-66 that created less tension on the strings (.009s)? Any other strings that have inherently less tension? Is tuning-down my only solution?
Thanx,
Dan


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 Post subject: Re: McGuinn adjusts his 12
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:00 pm
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Location: Santa Ana, CA
The guitars in the 60's left the factory with very low tension flat wound strings, produced for RIC by Maxima in Germany. These haven't since been replicated although the Thomastik Infeld strings are quite close. Their construction method (unlike another popular flat wound brand which is too stiff) is quite similar to our old strings.

I'm pretty sure that's what you remember.


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 Post subject: Re: McGuinn adjusts his 12
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:00 pm
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Location: Up in the evergreens
Tinkering with the truss rods is one of those things I would best leave to the experts. Just my .02 for what it's worth.


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 Post subject: Re: McGuinn adjusts his 12
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:00 pm
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Location: Saratoga Springs NY
A personal obsv. I dont think Roger played the way he does today back in 1964. I do not hear his current picking style in the original recordings . I do hear Two guitars or two tracks, on those vintage recordings, I dont think roger tunned his guitars lower in the sixties. who the hell does that , who the hell did that......... also I have 3 rickenbacker 12 string guitars 36012 36012v64 and 37012 I do not tune my guitars down,never have never will, Rickenbacker truss rods are the strongest in the bussness (two of em). Once set, these only need minor ajustments according to climate change. I do mine twice a year once in the late Fall and once in the early Summer. These guitars are meant to be tunned at 440 with no ill effect. I think low tunning over time is damaging to guitars they where built and designed to be tunned at 440. When restringing I recommend one at a time espesialy the 12 strings, never take all the strings off at one time, Again this is my obsv. Jim


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 Post subject: Re: McGuinn adjusts his 12
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:38 am 
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In his video Roger does say that he has developed his picking technique as a result of playing solo over the last few years. He does at some point state that he did lay down the rythm and then overdubbed the picking/riff segments during the Byrds sessions.. Another reason he may tune down is that his voice may not be what it once was!! No offence intended! Just something that comes with age I guess. Even McCartney has admitted to struggling reaching the notes when performing the older Beatles material.


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 Post subject: Re: McGuinn adjusts his 12
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:37 am
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Location: Springfield, VA
Quote:
I have a DVD called The 12-string Guitar of Roger McGuinn which is a very good little limpse at how Roger plays his RIC. At one point he shows how to adjust action by adjusting the trusses. Have you seen this and is there anything you might add to his advice?


I saw this post and I was just thinking about buying this video. Does anyone in fact have it - and would you reccommend (i.e. is it worth the $30 smackeroos?)

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: McGuinn adjusts his 12
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:00 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Florida Gulfcoast
I have it and do recommend it (I bought mine in February at the Florida International Guitar Expo; paid $26, as I recall. If you Froogle it [ISBN 1-932537-19-8] you might do even better).

The main attraction for me is his demonstration of the "Eight Miles High" scale/mode. But there is a lot of interesting info in there. . .


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 Post subject: Re: McGuinn adjusts his 12
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:00 pm
Posts: 461
Location: New York/New Jersey
I have it and it's pretty good. Is it worth $30? Well, I guess they are not going to sell gazillions of them so the price is a little on the high side.

But, as I said, it is pretty good!

You'll probably want the Richard Smith book too!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/093175 ... e&n=283155


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 Post subject: Re: McGuinn adjusts his 12
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:00 pm
Posts: 268
Location: Los Angeles area
There is a power seller on E-Bay who regularly posts these McGuinn DVDs under the Rickenbacker heading of E-Bay items. You can get one of the DVDs under the "Buy it Now" option on E-Bay since this guy is a regular seller of massive quantities of DVDs, books, etc. I believe the seller ID might be drmusic99 but I can't say for sure since it was more than six months ago when I purchased my McGuinn DVD from him. Keep checking the Rickenbacker heading for items for sale or check out through DVD and music distributors headings on E-Bay. Or maybe run a search on Roger McGuinn and see what comes up. Regards

P.S. By the way I forgot to mention that I highly recommend this DVD. I paid under $30 for it thorugh the E-Bay dealer. And as others mentioned it includes transcriptions of what Roger says he is playing. But the way he plays classic Byrds tunes as a solo artist today includes a lot of fill-in picking since there is no second guitar and bass there to fill the voids. Hence the transcriptions included with the DVD likely do not jive with the original Byrds recordings back in 1965-66. But this DVD is something that every Ric 12 string owner ought to cosnider to have in your collection.


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