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G string out of tune
http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14948
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Author:  peperepresa9592 [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:28 am ]
Post subject:  G string out of tune

Hi all! Does anybody has the same problem? The G string in my 330 goes out of tune almost all of the time, mainly after bendings. It happens also in the D but it is not so remarcable as is in the G.

Author:  Ain'tGotNoPokemon [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G string out of tune

Is this a six or twelve string?

The main problem with G strings, or any string, is that if you have a gauge too high or low, the nut does not properly support it. If you do not wrap the string around before entering the tuner, this can also be suspect.

Author:  peperepresa9592 [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G string out of tune

It's a six. The strings I use are the Rickenbacker compressed round wound medium 10-13-17-26-34-42. I will try your suggestion of wraping the string before. Thanks!

Author:  buchrob [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G string out of tune

A folded piece of very fine sandpaper moistened with rubbing alcohol can be used to clean the nut grooves and the area of the string that goes through the nut. You can put a tiny amount of powdered graphite lubricant into the slot before re-installing the strings.

Give the strings a good stretch when installing. You should be able to gently pick up the guitar by lifting with a ruler placed under the strings at the end of the fretboard.

Author:  peperepresa9592 [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G string out of tune

In other forums they have suggested me to use a 18 19 or 20 wound G string, in addition of graphite lubrication or re-intonation. What do you think about?

Author:  Ain'tGotNoPokemon [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G string out of tune

peperepresa9592 wrote:
In other forums they have suggested me to use a 18 19 or 20 wound G string, in addition of graphite lubrication or re-intonation. What do you think about?

You can try the wound string, but that's never been a problem with long scale Rics.

Author:  buchrob [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G string out of tune

Re-intonation will not help at all. You want to adjust the instrument so that it plays perfectly with factory-spec strings. If for some reason your Ferrari has a wheel that is out-of-spec, you don't go shopping for a different size tire to fix the problem.

There are 2 potential problems with the nut:

1. It's too tight, allowing the string to bind until a certain extra force, such as a bend, is applied and then BINGO, tuning changes because the string is now jammed in a new position.

2. It's too high, meaning that up-the-neck and open chords sound fine, but fretting in the first few positions, such as a D-minor, will give sour results consistently.

Temporarily put a much thinner string in the G-position. It may feel floppy when playing, but if it holds its tune after some aggressive bends, then the nut is too tight for the correct-gauge string.

There has always been some debate on plain vs wound G strings, as that always seems to be the one that gives intonation problems. Perhaps a previous owner swapped out the standard nut for a thinner one to accommodate the plain string.

You can also use a spare or scrap wound string of the correct gauge as a file to clean out the slot.

Author:  iiipopes [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G string out of tune

I am the guy who suggested on this same thread over on RickResource of going to a wound 3rd G string. I agree with buchrob's point #1, that if the nut slot is too tight it can bind a string, but only part of his point #2, and respectfully disagree with the rest of it. A too high nut slot will definitely cause notes to be sharp on the first few frets. But with a plain G string, it will tend to be sharp anyway due to inherent string stretch. The only true solution to a person desiring to use a plain G 3rd string is to individually compensate the nut with a very thinshim to shorten the scale length of that particular string very slightly, with a slightly raised slot height combined with adjusted bridge intonation to make sure the first few frets are not sharp and notes up the neck are not flat.

Moreover, if the string hangs in the nut, it is just as liable after a significant note bending, which stretches the string, to be flat and not return to pitch as the nut grabs the string after it has been bent. Another way to check the nut slot is to tune the guitar to pitch, stretch the string manually to make sure it is stable, then fine tune, always up from flat to pitch, not down from sharp, then press the string down to the peghead between the nut and the tuning machine. If the string returns to tune, fine. If the string stays sharp, then the nut slot is either too tight, is in need of burnishing and/or lubrication, is dirty, the string is corroded at the witness point, the witness point of the nut is not precise, or otherwise the nut is worn, or some combination of all the above.

I also respectfully disagree with Ain'tGotNoPokemon. In my almost 40 years of playing guitar and bass, it has been my experience that a plain G string can go sharp on any guitar, irrespective of make or model.

Author:  Ain'tGotNoPokemon [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G string out of tune

iiipopes wrote:
I also respectfully disagree with Ain'tGotNoPokemon. In my almost 40 years of playing guitar and bass, it has been my experience that a plain G string can go sharp on any guitar, irrespective of make or model.

Where did I say otherwise?

"The main problem with G strings, or any string, is that if you have a gauge too high or low, the nut does not properly support it. If you do not wrap the string around before entering the tuner, this can also be suspect."

I didn't say it was exclusive or not to Rics at all. In fact, this post: "You can try the wound string, but that's never been a problem with long scale Rics.," Says that in my experience, a plain G is no problem on a long scale Ric.

In almost a decade of playing guitar, I've never claimed to know it all, but I certainly know what I've said. ;)

Author:  iiipopes [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G string out of tune

This is the statement I disagreed with:
Ain'tGotNoPokemon wrote:
You can try the wound string, but that's never been a problem with long scale Rics.

I apologize if I took it out of context, as I interpreted the word "that's" to refer to a plain G string never going sharp on a standard scale Rickenbacker guitar.

In any event, it's obvious that I am a proponent of a wound 3rd G string instead of a plain 3rd G string, whatever type of string or gauge of strings used. I have had much better consistency of tone and intonation over the decades with wound rather than with plain G strings. Even in the late '70's when I still played "10's" sets on my guitars, and before a 10-13-18w-26w-36w-46w set became commercially available as a stock item from the major string manufacturers, I would have my local dealer custom-order singles for me. Now, and for the last decade or so, as a general rule, I usually use the D'Addario EXL115W set of 11-49 with a 21w as the G-string on most of my 6-string electric guitars.

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