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 Post subject: 12 Saddle Bridge......
 Post Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:05 am
Posts: 15
Location: Ohio
I was planning to put this on my wish list... I'm good at basic setup stuff, but I was wondering if this bridge was already slotted?? If it isn't, I'l likely defer that to my luthier.

The 12 sounds great now, but if I can tweak the intonation just a little more, I think I'll be even happier.

Excellent pitch is not a blessing.... it's a curse.


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 Post subject: Re: 12 Saddle Bridge......
 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:38 am 
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Posts: 3710
First, the 12-saddle bridge is not pre-notched.

That said, there are literally dozens of threads consuming many gigabytes of bandwidth on this issue, including observations by Mr. JH himself on the relative merits of both bridges (he prefers the six-saddle for very valid both engineering and musical reasons). To sum the arguments up as merely traditionalist versus contemporary is oversimplification. Be that as it may, there are two sets of strings which intonate the best on a RIC 12-string with the conventional 6-saddle bridge: the stock factory set and the POTR T-I custom nickel flats set. Both of these sets were designed for the six-saddle bridge.

Another school of thought is that if the tuning is too perfect, you don't get the full chorus-y chime-y effect of a 12-string. Pipe organs actually have a rank called a celeste purposefully tuned a few cents sharp for this very reason: to get a softer complex tone similar to an orchestra violin section.

But the 12-string bridge can take into account all the variations in strings, setups, differences in technique, etc., and is concededly more versatile, especially if obtaining quality strings where a player lives may be an issue, whether from a budgetary or logistical perspective.

And then, there are those who chase tuning perfection as knights chasing a holy grail. But with further study about how a tempered tuning system like frets or keyboards work, it becomes apparent that nothing can be "perfect." It's all a compromise so an instrument can play in any key on any fret up and down the neck.

Finally, I like a little lighter strings on my guitar than the two conventional sets, so I assembled my own set, including a 17-wound or 18-wound 3rd unison G string, of course. The only problem I had on the conventional bridge was with the pair of low E strings. So instead of spending all the $$ on a 12-saddle bridge, I purchased a saddle blank from RIC and custom filed offsets so it would intonate properly on each string of the pair. Much less expensive, and more solid for tone. Of course, if I ever change the brand, model and gauging of strings I use on a regular basis, then I'll have to revisit that issue, but I don't see that happening anytime soon, as I gig almost exclusively on bass rather than guitar for the forseeable future.

That sums up the 12-saddle versus 6-saddle discussion. I'm surprised someone hasn't come out with a 9-saddle bridge: two solid saddles for the unison high E and B string pairs for tone and sustain, a changable saddle for either straight across for wound or offset for plain unison G-third strings, at the player's choice, and individual saddles for each string of the D, A & E pairs. Of course, with all the machining involved, the cost for such a bridge would be "Eight Miles High" at the least!


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 Post subject: Re: 12 Saddle Bridge......
 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:05 am
Posts: 15
Location: Ohio
Not to say that I hate the guitar with the 6 saddle.

I'm really curious to hear the difference, and then decide for myself which I want to use.

What as the other Non-Ric string model called? POTR?


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 Post subject: Re: 12 Saddle Bridge......
 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:10 pm
Posts: 756
Location: Georgia
VexorgTR wrote:
Not to say that I hate the guitar with the 6 saddle.

I'm really curious to hear the difference, and then decide for myself which I want to use.

What as the other Non-Ric string model called? POTR?

I believe Popes is referencing a particular brand that cannot be named on the forum. ;) I could be wrong.

I have to say, though, I prefer Elixers on my six string guitars, and paid the thirty bucks to put them on my Rickenbacker 12. I have found that they do not sound as good as the Ric brand, and it's difficult to match the exact suggested gauges.

Why not buy a twelve string saddle and try it out for yourself, though? I realize this may be an expensive option, but we can only tell you so much online. 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: 12 Saddle Bridge......
 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Location: Santa Ana, CA
Thomastik Infeld, I would think.


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 Post subject: Re: 12 Saddle Bridge......
 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:05 am
Posts: 15
Location: Ohio
At present I'm using Webstrings house brand strings. I generally like them and buy in bulk for many of my guitars. I will give the OEM strings another go soon..

I appreciate the advice.


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 Post subject: 12 Saddle Bridge......
 Post Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:00 pm
Posts: 230
Location: Los Angeles area
Hey iiipopes, that's a great summary of the 12-saddle vrs. 6-saddle debate. It's very well explained. You've successfully condensed all those hundreds of postings over the many years !!
Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: 12 Saddle Bridge......
 Post Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 10:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:34 am
Posts: 7
Location: USA Southern CA
Six versus twelve saddles is personal and subjective. At home, and all alone, my 360/12 with a 6-saddle bridge was very pleasing to my ear. Then I played it with my band and could never get it to blend with the two other guitars to my satisfaction. I ordered the 12-saddle, installed it, and for the past four years it has always made me happy and has sounded excellent when played along with my bandmates.


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 Post subject: Re: 12 Saddle Bridge......
 Post Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:10 pm
Posts: 756
Location: Georgia
Glodeen wrote:
Six versus twelve saddles is personal and subjective. At home, and all alone, my 360/12 with a 6-saddle bridge was very pleasing to my ear. Then I played it with my band and could never get it to blend with the two other guitars to my satisfaction. I ordered the 12-saddle, installed it, and for the past four years it has always made me happy and has sounded excellent when played along with my bandmates.


Do you play with or without the bridge plate?


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 Post subject: Re: 12 Saddle Bridge......
 Post Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 4:31 pm 
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Posts: 1007
Location: Australia
8MilesHigher wrote:
Hey iiipopes, that's a great summary of the 12-saddle vrs. 6-saddle debate. It's very well explained. You've successfully condensed all those hundreds of postings over the many years !!
Thanks.



Yes I thought the same after I reading that informative post!


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