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 Post subject: Re: pros and cons of the 5th "mixer" pot
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:36 am 
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SwissFrank wrote:
cassius987 wrote:
Rickissippi wrote:
Well, if it were just a second volume knob for the neck pickup, then turning it all the way down would make the neck pickup totally silent (just as turning down the primary volume knob for that pickup does).


If it doesn't totally silence the neck pickup when turned fully counter-clockwise, it's not wired according to the RIC schematic.



OK, Cassius, Rickissippi... this is a big new piece of data for me.

I assume that the far end of the "mixer" is NOT grounded, so the volume only goes about 1/2 or 2/3 down?

(I had a vague memory that it worked the way you describe, but when I saw the official schematic on the official website I assumed my memory was playing tricks.)

I'm still not satisfied that I've learned anything by asking. Sure, you can do lots of things with the mixer. You could do a lot of things with ANY knob that (partially) duplicated an existing knob. I still don't see why you would duplicate it in the first place, or under what conditions a player would decide to use knob A instead of knob B.

In contrast, ask me why a Gretsch has so many vols AND a kill switch and I can at least explain exactly what the advantages can be, and why at least some people would desire it exactly like that. But for the Ric I'm still totally lost.

Both of the Rics I have owned didn't totally kill the volume of the neck pickup when I had the fifth knob turned down. My 620/12 was made in 2009, and my ex 360 in 2010.


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 Post subject: Re: pros and cons of the 5th "mixer" pot
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:42 am 
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cassius987 wrote:
Rickissippi wrote:
Well, if it were just a second volume knob for the neck pickup, then turning it all the way down would make the neck pickup totally silent (just as turning down the primary volume knob for that pickup does).


If it doesn't totally silence the neck pickup when turned fully counter-clockwise, it's not wired according to the RIC schematic.

Well, I haven't opened her up and pulled the schematics for comparison, but I can say that I bought my 2009 model brand new and haven't made any changes to the electronics at all. I am pretty certain the dealer made no mods to her. If the neck p'up's primary volume is all the way up, but the fifth knob is all the way down, that pickup is not totally silenced. However, the converse situation (fifth up, vol. down) would totally silence the pickup.
I'm not alone:
Ain'tGotNoPokemon wrote:
Both of the Rics I have owned didn't totally kill the volume of the neck pickup when I had the fifth knob turned down. My 620/12 was made in 2009, and my ex 360 in 2010.

One other thing of note in reply - at least on my guitar - is that my fifth knob is actually at its lowest volume when it's turned all the way *clockwise,* and at its highest volume when its all the way *counter clockwise.*
Does anyone else notice that?


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 Post subject: Re: pros and cons of the 5th "mixer" pot
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:40 am 
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It sounds like, as with the ROS wiring being different than indicated in terms of which pickup goes to tip or ring, this may be another area where the schematic reflects one way of doing it but not necessarily the current reality.


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 Post subject: Re: pros and cons of the 5th "mixer" pot
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:27 am 
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JohnHall wrote:

I'd love to drop it from current production but the purists would howl! Note, however, that new models, like the 650 and 4004 series do not have this knob.


In all honesty it seems like it would be very useful on the 4004. A lot of people do the VVT mod or the VTVT stacked mod. . .


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 Post subject: Re: pros and cons of the 5th "mixer" pot
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:33 am 
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JohnHall wrote:
I'd love to drop it from current production but the purists would howl! Note, however, that new models, like the 650 and 4004 series do not have this knob.


Mr. Hall, I've seen you say this before about ROS. So, is it ROS, or the fifth knob you'd like to drop? I'm obviously in the camp that uses it even when not using ROS (which I rarely use). Perhaps ill-advisedly, I tend to set up to play with my primary volumes (and tones) dimed, so I can roll back on them when need be on stage during performance, and bring them back up when needed. I use the fifth knob to achieve a good volume balance for both pickups before starting. That way, when I dime the primary volumes again later in the gig, I know they'll end up being back to about the same level. I do notice some tonal differences occurring when I'm setting my fifth knob, though, or at least I perceive some.

But as I said, my fifth knob is actually all the way up when it's turned fully counter-clockwise and vice versa, i.e., the opposite of pretty much all other tone and volume knobs on essentially every amp and guitar I've ever played or seen. Is that as it should be?


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 Post subject: Re: pros and cons of the 5th "mixer" pot
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:46 am 
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Rickissippi wrote:
Perhaps ill-advisedly, I tend to set up to play with my primary volumes (and tones) dimed, so I can roll back on them when need be on stage during performance, and bring them back up when needed. I use the fifth knob to achieve a good volume balance for both pickups before starting. That way, when I dime the primary volumes again later in the gig, I know they'll end up being back to about the same level.


Rickissippi, this is the first possible use mentioned on this thread that I even think makes sense. (Every other reason for the pot I've received could just as well be done with the neck vol itself.)

Rickissippi wrote:
ROS


I don't play jazz but I have a Gibson Super 400. Despite being a $17k list instrument, I'm planning on taking a soldering iron to it and re-wiring for ROS!


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 Post subject: Re: pros and cons of the 5th "mixer" pot
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:06 am 
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Rickissippi wrote:
Mr. Hall, I've seen you say this before about ROS. So, is it ROS, or the fifth knob you'd like to drop?


Both. I think they are anachronisms. As I noted before, the 650 Series and 4004 Series as newer designs do not have these "features".


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 Post subject: Re: pros and cons of the 5th "mixer" pot
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:44 pm 
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I gotta say ..I really dig the Ric-O-Sound ..2 amps...come on.. fills the flippin house with sound, Gives me the "ffeeelllinn!!.. But i am also new here so..do what you will but its a very unique feature i find. Sometimes wish my 650c had it.

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 Post subject: Re: pros and cons of the 5th "mixer" pot
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:12 pm 
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I am a fairly recent Rick owner (2010 JG 330) and I find the 5th knob to be somewhat redundant - as mentioned, why not just adjust the neck vol. pot? Is there any validity to making the 5th knob a master volume? Is there a schematic anywhere for an MV?


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 Post subject: Re: pros and cons of the 5th "mixer" pot
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:13 pm 
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Pros: it looks cool and more "Authenticly Rickenbackerish"
It can create a wonderful palette of sound-scapes

Cons:It takes a while to dial in the "wonderful palette of sound-scapes"
if you accidentally move it from your favorite setting in the middle of a song, you're screwed :lol:


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