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 Post subject: Re: 12k/7k toasters/high gains?
 Post Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 2:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:00 pm
Posts: 118
Location: Ontario Canada
my bad! but that was the resistance we measured on my friends 67 rickenbacker 360, so I don't know?


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 Post subject: Re: 12k/7k toasters/high gains?
 Post Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 5:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 207
Location: Massachusetts
oops, disregard


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 Post subject: Re: 12k/7k toasters/high gains?
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:07 am
Posts: 3811
Folks, except for the comment about a lot of original 50's toasters being @6.4 kohms, your're all permanently out to lunch.

Preamble: All Rick pickups use 44 gauge wire. Period. Always have, always will. With this thin of a wire, there is a very small window of tension that can be used to wind the bobbins. I'm surprised they can turn out as many as quick as they can. So with Rick pickups, unlike a lot of other manufacturers, you can get an idea of the relative tone from dc resistance measurements from one pickup to the next of the same model, since the winding tension is so consistent.

1) Toasters have a wide range from @5kohms to @8kohms. After measuring and listening to a lot of original pickups, 7.4kohms, or actually the amount of turns on the winder that correspond to that dc resistance, the factory decision was the 7.4kohms' amount of wire was considered to have the best balance of tone and output.

2) Hi-gains can have anything. The majority of high gains have between @11kohms and @13kohms worth of wire on them. The bridge pickup on my 1982 360-12WB Fireglo checkerboard has @6.5kohms of wire stock. The neck pickup had @13kohms of wire, and I unwound it down to @8kohms of wire to improve the tone. On tape, you can't tell it from a toaster.

3) My 1982 325 has two high gains with @7kohms each, and one with @14kohms. I have the two lower ones in the bridge and middle positions hooked up to the pickup selector switch in the conventional manner for two pickups, and I leave the neck pickup with the greater amount of wire on it unhooked. Hey, John L himself did this to his '58 Mapleglo.

4) There is currently one HB1 humbucker model. The one I purchased separately for a custom bass has @14kohms, and the one I have on a shelf waiting for a project measures @15kohms. From what I've read, this is the normal range, and the winders are automated to keep it there.

5) I never measured the pickups on the 1976 4001 I used to have. They died a natural death and I sold the bass.

6) The pickups on my 4002 are a different breed altogether, as they are side-by-side coil humbuckers, with each coil sensing two strings. I'll have to dig that out one day and see what's going on with them. I can tell you the bridge pickup has less output, because it has less windings than the neck pickup, because room had to be allowed for the secondary winding going to the lo-Z jack.

7) It's been awhile, so I cannot comment on what the real difference between the high gain neck and bridge models is. The pole pieces are so large in diameter, and the string spacing at the bridge is so narrow, which makes less taper to the nut, that I can't believe it is the polepiece spacing since I have no offset on my guitars with high gains.

Epilogue: Sorry to be so long, but this had to be cleared up. If your pickup measures outside these ranges, either 1) you haven't isolated the pickup from the pots and/or, in case of the bridge pickup, from the inline capacitor, or 2) Something is deteriorating interior to your pickup (hey, reality happens!), or 3) it was a bad day at the factory. But before you assume any of the above, make sure you isolate the pickup with a good volt/ohm meter, not a $5 cheapy, and look at the pickup carefully to make sure it seems intact, with nothing loose or frayed. And don't pull on the lead; 44 wire is fragile.


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 Post subject: Re: 12k/7k toasters/high gains?
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:51 am
Posts: 3362
Location: Atlanta, GA
All of this discussion is great - Unfortunately, it's probably just going to confuse Guy_incognito even more.

Toasters from the late Fifties measured approx. between 5k and 6k resistance (somewhat incorrectly called impedance). In the Sixties, toasters measured approx. between 7k and 7.5k. When the toasters were reintroduced for the Vintage series, they measured approx. between 12k and 13k. Around 1999, they went back to approx. 7.5k, which is what you get today if you order a guitar, or a toaster pickup.

An iiipopes, I have a 2003 650S whick both pickups (humbuckers) measure a little under 13k. This is with a good meter, each pickup isolated, and there's nothing wrong with them. I know another forumite who has a 650 with a 13k humbucker measurement. So, not all your specs are correct either.


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