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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:11 am 
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Done.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:11 pm 
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Hello iiipopes. I have read this thread over and over. Would it benefit me to have this modification done on my 4080/12 doubleneck? The wiring should be the same as for a 4001 and a 370/12 5 knob with Ric-O-sound. I am an electronics technician/engineer so I would love to see a copy of the proper schematic(s) for doing this mod on my 4080. Can you send me the necessary drawings? My email address is: oldwrldman@hotmail.com

Thank you so much.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:02 pm 
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Hey OldWorldMan -- please send me a schematic of a stock 4080. I'm not sure how the wiring from one neck to the other interact, so I need a stock schematic in order to figure out how to add a push-pull.

Since each neck has only two pickups, and since each push-pull has two separate sides, it should be a straightforward matter to run each hot lead of each bridge pickup to its own side of the push pull, add a .0047 cap for each, etc. The limitation is that if you want the cap in or out, it would be either in or out on both necks simultaneously; in other words, unless you used two separate push-pulls, it's all-or-nothing on one control.

Please let me know, or if there is anybody else out there with a 4080 stock wiring diagram or schematic, please let me know. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:08 am 
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I see. I might not like that limitation. I could make the 4001 portion have the push/pull like on a newer 4001 bass perhaps and put a push/pull on the fifth knob like on a 360 for the guitar side. what do you think about that? I will see what I can dig up and yeah if anyone else has a 4080 wiring schematic please let us know.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Quote:
I see. I might not like that limitation. I could make the 4001 portion have the push/pull like on a newer 4001 bass perhaps and put a push/pull on the fifth knob like on a 360 for the guitar side. what do you think about that? I will see what I can dig up and yeah if anyone else has a 4080 wiring schematic please let us know.

Thanks.


Yes, that is very feasible, and probably preferred. Using a push-pull on the 5th knob for the guitar side and one of the other controls for the bass side would be more like the factory wires the push-pull for the current 4003 basses.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:07 pm 
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So could we try doing the wiring and just use the two separate schematics one for the 4003 and one for the 360/12 guitar? Should work out the same. Only difference is there is just a switch to switch from one neck to the other.

Would a stock 4001 have the .047 cap already installed? It is the 4003 basses that needs the cap added correct? And the new 4003's have the vintage tone mod from the factory right? Or am I backwards? The 4001 has the vintage tone already you are just adding a switch to switch to the "modern" tone circuit right?

Played a 360/12 in a music-go-round in Colorado YESTERDAY through a small vox amp. Sounds way different than the 12 on the 4080. The semi hollow body really makes a difference! LOL.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:36 pm 
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Quote:
So could we try doing the wiring and just use the two separate schematics one for the 4003 and one for the 360/12 guitar? Should work out the same. Only difference is there is just a switch to switch from one neck to the other.

Would a stock 4001 have the .047 cap already installed? It is the 4003 basses that needs the cap added correct? And the new 4003's have the vintage tone mod from the factory right? Or am I backwards? The 4001 has the vintage tone already you are just adding a switch to switch to the "modern" tone circuit right?

Played a 360/12 in a music-go-round in Colorado YESTERDAY through a small vox amp. Sounds way different than the 12 on the 4080. The semi hollow body really makes a difference! LOL.


Does the 4080 have Ric-O-Sound, or is mono? That would determine which diagram to take off from.

The inline cap is a .0047 and the regular tone cap is .047. There is a world of difference between the two. Generally, you can tell which is which because the .047 tone caps are usually physically larger and soldered right onto the tone pots; and the .0047 is usually physically smaller and on a hot lead somewhere, often as the jumper from the selector switch to the bridge volume pot.

So, depending on how the interneck selector switch works, you could have only one .0047 cap in there with the dual controls with the cap working on both sides of the aisle, so to speak, or two, one for each bridge pickup, or none at all, or any combination, depending on how the neck selector switch, as opposed to the pickup selector switch, is wired up. So, the wiring could be really simple or really complex depending on what is really there and what the player really wants in the way of operation of the instrument.

Almost all 4001 basses and almost all guitars of the era had the cap, but not all. Some of the other guys can give a better range of dates when various pickups and the inline capacitor have been phased in and out (pun intended) over the years, as well as how pot values have changed. Since the 5th knob is effectively an ungrounded inline resistor to the bridge circuit, it really doesn't matter that the replacement is 500k, and the original is somewhere between 250k to 330k to 500k, because since it is not grounded there is no additional loading to speak of.

The bottom line to all the above, in answer to the post, is, of course, "It depends."


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:01 am 
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Yes! I would not own a Rickenbacker without Rick-O-sound! You can achieve Rick-o-sound on both necks and it is the tone(s) I prefer to have.

So I guess the mod you have either replaces the .047 cap with a .0047 cap or it leaves the .047 cap in the circuit and then you add an additional .0047 cap?

Please correct me I am just trying to understand. I am not around my guitar to see if it has two caps or not I am out of town but will beable to see it this weekend. Since the 4080 doubleneck is a splice between a 4001 and a 480 guitar, then I can only assume it has a .047 cap on both sides.

When I first acquired this beast and had it apart I noticed that it did have a cap(s), but I am not sure what the value was nor if there were two of them.

Would it be easy to obtain a wiring diagram for the 480 guitar? It might help us in this menagerie but I am not certain if the 480 six string had Rick-O-sound or not.

I use my own specially designed Rick-O-sound box for this doubleneck and utilizes 4 separate amplifiers and the box is designed to switch to the different pair of signals on stage. A picture of the box is in the link below:

(My wife is responsible for the box cover art) :-)

http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y31 ... C09903.jpg




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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:32 am 
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My mods are focused on the .0047 inline cap to the bridge pickup, and, on those models that have them, how the third (middle) pickup integrates into the scheme, rather than the factory stock neck+mid to the upper position of the selector switch.

I'm going to go ahead and send you the 360 (2 pickup) and 370 (3 pickup) Ric-O-Sound diagrams so you see what I mean.

The other main point of my mods is that all controls retain their factory functions so no relearning of the controls is necessary. It may not seem like much, but it is imperative when playing live so the wrong knob is not inadvertently grabbed when trying to do something in a middle of a song, whether a setup for lead, or a fine trim to slot the mix, or whatever.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:39 am 
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I am all about keeping the mods to a minimum and keeping the instrument as stock as possible even when a mod is done. what I really mean ismake it look "Factory".

Yeah please send me the stock 360 wiring from the factory and then send me your mod wiring so I can understand clearer.

Thanks.


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