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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:47 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:07 am
Posts: 3710
My mods do not work with the new switch. The older push-pull was a DPDT, so I could have both the in/out of the .0047 inline capacitor to the bridge pickup along with the either/or middle/neck pickup on a 3-pickup guitar.

The new switch is an SPST switch, which will only work for the .0047 inline capacitor in/out-bypass. This is the same as the factory 4003 wiring. If all a player desires is the inline capacitor as in/out-bypass, then the factory 4003 wiring diagram for the switch part of the circuit will work for the 360 and some of the other 2-pickup guitars as well.

If a player wants the full mods, then one of the older style switches will have to be procured somewhere else.

That said, please let me know if you still want the diagrams. Since RIC does not offer this part any more, I must re-emphasize that to alter the wiring of a new instrument may void the warranty. These mods are what I have done to my own guitars. There is no guarantee that they will work on yours, and neither RIC nor I warrant the diagrams as useful for any particular purpose.

When possible, use only RIC approved parts.

I have no connection with RIC or any of the people at RIC. You perform these modifications at your own risk.

Thanks to Mr. JH and crew for allowing the bandwidth for this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:32 pm
Posts: 1
Hi iii popes - first-time poster here, as well as, first-time Rickenbacker owner as of recently.

If still available, may I also have a copy of your diagram re: your mod for a 5-control, 2-pickup 330?

tomleelynch@aol.com

If posting email address is inappropriate, I apologize in advance and will gladly rely on a different means of transmission.

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:34 am
Posts: 17
Location: Palmetto, Fl.
iiipopes knows his onions. I have one other mod to add to his which I did to my new 360 with the high gains.

In the 60's I had a Ric 370. We did a lot of Byrd stuff. In any event, I still haven't gotten that old style jangle out of my system after all these years. I was ready to eliminate the high gains and go to toasters because that old jangle just wasn't quite there in my new Ric 360/12. Something was bothering me but I couldn't put my finger on it.

Up to that point, I had been concentrating on the jangle sound coming through an amp to get the correct jangle. I was getting frustrated. So I picked up my 360/12 and was just goofing around with it and all of a sudden I noticed this new 360/12 didn't have the jangle my 60's 370/12 had without an amp. Now I wasn't hooked up to an amp so the pick-ups didn't come in to play so that didn't make sense.

I was trying to figure out why did this new Ric 360/12 sound different than my 60s Ric 370/12 with no amp as the pick-ups don't come in to play. I was just sitting there and for some reason I picked upward and that sound I had been searching for appeared. So I immediately reversed the strings top and bottom at the same time thinking weren't my strings on my 60s Ric 370/12 the way I was reversing them ?

I finished reversing the strings, hooked up to the amp. What a difference in sound. I now had my 60s 370/12 jangle now coming from my new Ric 360/12.

FORGET THE TOASTERS GUYS. REVERSE THE STRINGS LIKE MOST OTHER MAKE 12 STRINGS AND THAT'S IT. I Had the nut reworked so the strings don't pop out.

I then went down to the Sam Ash with my Ric 360/12. They had a Ric 360/12 in stock, so we hooked both up to a Blackstar 100. There was no comparison and everyone remarked about how different the tone was even though they were the same make and model guitars. I played both using a compressor (treble booster). It was night and day.

If you hook all this up to a Whammy pedal using the harmony on the high pitch side Roger (Jim) McGuinn would be impressed.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Stanstead, QC
I'm sure I'm not the first guy to spend $$$$ to find that 330/360 or 660/12 out of the box don't sound ANYTHING like the Byrds or mid-60's Beatles we are accustomed to hearing.

Tried several experiments: Danelectro 12 Korean solid body re-issue -- much sharper with the "classical" stringing, steel nut and lipstick pickup. With a bit of modulation, could be the poor man's Ric 12. Just hope you don't have to play with the truss rod.

Dean Boca 12 came with classic stringing. Switched over to Ric style: a bit better but not in the same class as a Ric even with minute adjustments including a new nut. Just about what you'd figure a $300 Chinese knock-off would do.

Most everything in the 60's was compressed at some point to accommodate the limitations of the recording equipment of the era. Roger (Jim) McGuinn has mentoined several times just feeding into a compressor and the mixing board directly.

Even with the same left-hand fingerings, most players can make any instrument sound dull, live, agressive or muted depending on the strumming/plucking attack.

Now obviously when Ric sells a re-issue, it's built to the same specs as John Lennon's Miami or Roger McGuinn's 360/12 guitar, or whatever, but they can't duplicate the techniques or effects the artist used to create his original sound.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:34 am
Posts: 17
Location: Palmetto, Fl.
Well there are some things you just can't improve on. I mean we still use tube amps which we used over 40 years ago. We were sponsored by VOX and I hated them. I'd take my Custom or Marshall any day of the week over the solid state garbage.

What we refer to as compression today was called a treble booster back in the day. As I said reverse the strings on the Ric 360/12. It makes a hell of a difference. I could have sworn they were like that on my old 370/12.

For the record, the third pick-up on the 370 is useless. With that third pick-up they are to close together to differentiate the tone. That's probably why Ric drooped the 370/6 from their product line.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:10 pm
Posts: 756
Location: Georgia
Well, I find I get very much the same sound as McGuinn or Harrison on my 620/12 simply by playing their songs with a Dynacomp through a bright amp. I don't get the mystery.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:07 am
Posts: 3710
Hey rkrric - thanks for your confidence.

rkrric wrote:
FORGET THE TOASTERS GUYS. REVERSE THE STRINGS LIKE MOST OTHER MAKE 12 STRINGS AND THAT'S IT. I Had the nut reworked so the strings don't pop out.


Well, I don't quite agree, but I will go this far: McGuinn uses a banjo-style picking hand technique. Since the fingers come up to strike the strings instead of going down like a thumb or using a triangle pick, it does have the same effect on the strings that he uses his fingerpicks on: the octave string is sounded first, then the unison.

Regarding the middle pickup: it is a tad close on a 24-fret neck, but on a 21 fret neck, with the pickups spaced farther apart, there is more differential in the tones. Also, the mid and bridge together without the .0047 inline cap to the bridge pickup makes a nice "sweet" tone that is not in the stock RIC palette.

And with the amps: most folks who play Vox now go with some variant on either the AC15 or AC30, which is still tube, not transistor, like the Thomas Organ Super Beatle Amps were. That said, it can get a little fizzy when pushed, but the new Vox Pathfinder has great tone and records well.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:34 am
Posts: 17
Location: Palmetto, Fl.
Hey iipopes,

We used to play a lot of the Byrds stuff back in the day and I used the finger picks like McGuinn.

Reversing the strings does make a difference in the sound. It gives the guitar more jangle like back in the day.

I just never liked the Vox amps and we were sponsored by Vox. I loved my Marshall though and I now have a full stack Blackstar 100 which I really like. I have both a Ric 360/6 and Ric 360/12.

I use a Philosophers Tone compressor which has a lot better tone and sustain than my MX. If you really want a wild jangle sound with the Ric 360/12, hook up a Whammy pedal using the high octave harmony side along with compression.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:53 am
Posts: 31
Hey rkrric,

I am considering th Jungle Blox for my new 360/12C63. Have you used this compression box verses the Philosophers tone compressor? Thanks for you input.

_________________
Ed

360/6
360/12C63
Gretsch Country Gentleman G6122-1962
Fender strat
Vox AC30


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:34 am
Posts: 17
Location: Palmetto, Fl.
Ed,

I haven't used that one. However, I've tried just about every other compression pedal. The philosophers tone in my opinion has the best tone and sound. The sustain on the philosophers tone is unreal. It will hold a note forever. On a 12 string it's unreal.

Take your Ric 12 string down to the local Sam Ash. Hook-up to at least a 50 watt tube amp. Hook up the philosophers tone along with a Whammy pedal that has the harmony side. Switch to the highest octave on the harmony side of the Whammy pedal. You'll love it. Talk about 60s jangle. Just try it Ed.

The guys that work at my local Sam Ash dropped their jaw. It makes that kind of impression.

I'd take your Ric down to the local music store and try out as many pedals as you can to settle on the one you want.


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