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 Post subject: Mike Rutherford: Guitars, basses, and doublenecks
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:22 am
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Location: Toronto, ON, Canada (aka The Great White North)
Lately I've been unusually interested in the various guitars/basses that Mike Rutherford of Genesis used.
I read somewhere that almost none of his instruments were totally stock.
I'm curious as to what model Ric he was playing in "The Musical Box".
The 4001 he uses is also modified a bit.
But my big question is (and I'm sure this is a sort of popular one), what 2 instruments did he use to make his famous Ric doubleneck (bass and 12 string guitar)? Also any information on the doubleneck he played during the "Lamb Lies Down" album/tour would be appriciated.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Rutherford: Guitars, basses, and doublenecks
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:00 pm
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Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Mike used a 4001 and a 360/12 dating to the mid to late 60's to have his double neck Ricky made. Dick Night did the work. Other than the fact that the 12ver neck is on top, I don't think the instrument is that practical for a normal sized person. It's perfect for Mike at around 6'4", but the wider spacing between the necks made for a pretty wide guitar. The doubleneck he played during the Lamb tour was probably a Shergold. These had upper and lower halves that were detatchable so they could be combined with other Shergold guitars and basses.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Rutherford: Guitars, basses, and doublenecks
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:00 pm
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Location: Los Angeles area
If you would like to see some real interesting step-by-step photography and explanations of how a luthier constructed a replica of the famous Mike Rutherford double neck Rickenbacker - check out

http://williamyoungguitars.com/rutherforddoubleneck.htm

Note -- this is a luthier creating a replica by sawing up two Rics (a twelve string and a bass) and putting them together. This is not the original Rutherford ...but may give you some insight as to what is involved.

Forum member Ace on Bass also has a lot of experience in these types of projects, too !


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Rutherford: Guitars, basses, and doublenecks
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:22 am
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Location: Toronto, ON, Canada (aka The Great White North)
Thanks for the information! I've been doing a little research myself and found out that the doubleneck on TLLDOB was a Microfrets 6 string bass and a Rickenbacker 12 string. Question, the 6 string is the same type as a Fender Bass VI. Is it a short scale bass, or a baritone guitar but in the tuning of a bass? Or is a short scale the same as a baritone?


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Rutherford: Guitars, basses, and doublenecks
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:33 am
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So, I think I know quite a bit about The Lamb and can tell you with some certainty that the 6 string bass (Micro-Frets) was a baritone guitar (Signature Model) that was fitted with a set of 6 short scale bass strings that were tuned to the same octave of a regular bass and the high strings the same as a 6 string guitar (that is, B and E tuned an octave lower than a regular guitar).

Mike had another double neck built for the TOTT tour which started as another Microfrets baritone and RICK 12 string with added humbucker pickups on both the bass and the 12 string.

This guitar proved to be unreliable and by the end of the tour, the SHERGOLD double neck made its first appearance.

The Micro-Frets Signature was a semi hollow guitar and combined with the RICK 12 string, actually wasn't as heavy as it looks.

The problem with the baritone guitar is that the neck was the same width as a regular guitar and the strings spaced like a regular guitar but with BASS STRINGS... a BEAR to play.

Jim

PS - I finally found a Micro-Frets signature guitar and right now it is in the shop being converted to a single neck MIKE RUTHERFORD Micro-Frets 6 string bass (custom baritone neck) and being painted and treated JET GLO Black. The problem with these Micro-Frets guitars is that the company only made a total of about 3000 guitars before going out of business and they are super RARE and super EXPENSIVE. I am no expert but I only know of three original Signature baritone guitars ever made.. Mike R owned 2 and a guy from TENN has one (he wouldn't part with it no matter how much money I offered him).


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Rutherford: Guitars, basses, and doublenecks
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:36 am
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Location: New York City
Another thing Rutherford did with his Ric 12 string necks was to have a conventional 12 string nut installed so the high pitched string would come first in each course.
--(edit) I just noticed that was Jim K posting above me... I know he knows this bit of info already! :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Rutherford: Guitars, basses, and doublenecks
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:22 am
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Location: Toronto, ON, Canada (aka The Great White North)
Thanks again for the useful information. Mike actually strung all his 12 strings with the octave string before the normal one? Does that change the sound (or why would he do that?). And also, does anybody have, or know where i could get some information on the Giffin doubleneck he used on the "Trick of the Tail" tour? I've been searching hard for the past week and came up with almost nothing. I'd really appriciate that, thanks.

And i hope my 4003 gets here by August like I heard...



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 Post subject: Re: Mike Rutherford: Guitars, basses, and doublenecks
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:33 am
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The reversed stringed 12 string makes a big difference in the sound of the RICK... since the higher octave is on top, it is LOUDER than when it is on the bottom during down strokes and as such, makes MIKE's RICK sound totally different during chord work.

Actually, if you listen to The Lamb and say The BYRDS, Mike's 12 string work doesn't even sound like a RICK at first. I am not sure if this was done on purpose when this doubleneck was built for sound effect or so that is was strung the same as an acoustic 12 string or by accident. But, it definitely gives Mike's RICK a unique sound.

Jim

The RICK builds are still that backed up? Your 4003 isn't due until AUGUST? When did you order it?


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Rutherford: Guitars, basses, and doublenecks
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:22 am
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Location: Toronto, ON, Canada (aka The Great White North)
Yeah, I ordered my Ric 2 years ago, but Steve's Music (the store) is slowly seeing the Rics trickle in. They think they are coming in bunches by colour. I ordered a jetglo one, but not too long ago they have started receiving Mapleglo 4003s. So I dunno...

In the meantime, I was planning on making a doubleneck Ric sort of like the one Mike used on the TOTT tour, I think its a Giffin. I really like that one, but I'd rather make a Ric doubleneck (I just don't have the money and the guts to chop 2 perfectly good Rics in half lol) so any info on that Giffin doubleneck would really be appriciated (as well as websites etc. because I can't find anything). :D


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Rutherford: Guitars, basses, and doublenecks
 Post Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:22 am
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Location: Toronto, ON, Canada (aka The Great White North)
Edit: I meant I was going to make a doubleck like the one Mike used on the TOTT tour (I believe it was a Giffin), as he didn't use a Ric on that tour.


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