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 Post subject: 60s Truss Rod design
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:09 am 
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Posts: 7
I have a 60s 615 that has no truss rods. I am capable of making them, but I can't find any info about them. Does anyone have any pics of one or any dimnesions of the bars used? I assume they are two bar style rods, welded at one end, but are the bottom bars flat or both round? Any info would be greatly appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: 60s Truss Rod design
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:03 am 
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Location: Santa Ana, CA
These rods are not like any conventional rods you've see. There is no welding involved. I'm not sure I can verbally describe them but I'll try.

They were made from flat rod stock, i.e. a rod that was roller-flattened to perhaps a 1:3 proportion, with the round remaining along the small edges. The length for the rod is roughly double the necessary length when cut. It was then folded, not quite in half, but so one side was approx. 1 inch longer. That longer section was then threaded, the threads being only on the rounded edge portion of the rod. The non-threaded end was ground to have a bevel such that it had a slightly sharp edge. A two holed cross piece was fabricated and the thread part of two rod inserted through the holes, and a tall hex-nut was installed on those threads. The beveled edge would then bite into the back of this plate as the nuts are tightened, causing the rods to spread apart.

When confined in the slot cut in the neck of the instrument, the effect was to create a bow.


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 Post subject: Re: 60s Truss Rod design
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:37 am 
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Thanks for that. I can picture it in my head. I guess with it being rolled that 3/16'' bar will be too large after rolling. Will it have been ground down? At a guess, it was heated so as not to snap when being bent in the middle. The annoying thing is, I bought some 3/16'' round bar and cut it into 19'' lengths thinking that would be more than long enough! Now its a single bar doubled over-back to the shop i go! Should have done my research first. Thanks again for the info.


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 Post subject: Re: 60s Truss Rod design
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:45 am 
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The original rod material, which may no longer be available, was flattened rather than ground. It also was not heated when it was folded, as it was quite mild steel. (Hardened steel or stainless in truss rods is not desirable, no matter what other may tell you, as it is much too resonant.)

You probably could weld two rods together at one end to simulate this but you'd have quite a grinding job to get it into the proper shape to fit the slots in the neck.

FYI, my recollection is that the raw material was 3/16"W x 1/8"T. The neck slot was probably 3/16"W x 1/4"H, leading to a tight fit (both a good and bad thing).


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 Post subject: Re: 60s Truss Rod design
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:58 pm 
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Your information has been invaluable. The slot measurements are exactly as you describe. I would like to give a shot at recreating the original, but for now I think brazing a piece of flat bar to a piece of 3/16'' round will have to be the way to go. It should work in the same way.


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 Post subject: Re: 60s Truss Rod design
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:43 pm 
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Location: Scotland
I think the problem with that will be that you really need the flat (and thinner) bar to be under tension and the 3/16" round rod to be under compression, but given that the threading must be on the round rod, that will be the one under tension, ie the opposite way round.

It will probably still work given that both rods will be tightly constrained by the slot, but there will be a risk of the flat bar trying to flex outwards and producing an expansion force on the slot - which occurs anyway with the standard rods and is what can cause the fingerboard to pop off if the rods are tightened improperly without relieving the tension - but may be worse.

I had to repair an old rod literally a week ago - the threaded section had sheared off, also probably because of wrong adjustment, luckily there was enough length left to just shorten the beveled end and re-thread the rod another 3/8" - I wish I'd taken pics of the rod now, it might have been useful.


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 Post subject: Re: 60s Truss Rod design
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:29 am 
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I thought I knew where a better picture was, but here's one. Upper is the new style, lower is the old style.
http://www.rickresource.com/forum/downl ... &mode=view

OK, here's a better picture of the "business end"
http://www.rickresource.com/forum/viewt ... od#p588485


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 Post subject: Re: 60s Truss Rod design
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:51 pm 
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Those pics help a lot. It does look like I will be able to use ground down 3/16''.
Thanks guys.


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 Post subject: Re: 60s Truss Rod design
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:41 pm 
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Location: Scotland
Since it sounds like you clearly have the skills to make the rods, would you consider making them for other people in the future? (For money, of course!) I'm sure there are people in the UK who may find this useful.

I haven't actually needed to replace a rod yet, so far it's been possible by slightly shortening the broken rod, but one day I may need to...


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 Post subject: Re: 60s Truss Rod design
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:45 am
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Ill see how mine goes first. If it works ill try posting some pics.
Im conscious of being a newbie on here so Im not about to start advertising my wares.
So far Ive had to modify a modern 600 series upper scratch plate which was simple enough.
The frets are really worn down on the treble side, but Ive re-dressed very very low frets before with good results so Ill give that a go before ripping them out.
Looking forward to playing it!


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