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 Post subject: 1965 330/12: Opinions?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:51 am
Posts: 21
Hi,

I picked up this November '65 330/12 and am interested in some opinions on its originality.

First, I should say that overall it's in pretty decent shape. Neck looks and feels straight, action's good. Body has no major cracks or dings other than a hefty amount of buckle rash on the back. Average wear on the neck and fretboard. Sounds okay at the moment, but is definitely in need of new strings.

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Some things I've noticed that are bad/wrong:

Grommets missing between upper and lower pick guard. (No big deal to order.)

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Saddle cover missing. (Sad to be lacking the original, but no big deal to order.)
Saddle missing adjustment screw. (As long as it's not stripped, shouldn't be a problem.)

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Saddle has an odd adjuster. If you look at the close-up, one of them is split so that it faces in two different directions. Is this normal? The '67 that I owned before this had all uniform adjusters.

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One of the control knobs is marked slightly differently from the rest. Instead of a dash on the top and a dot on the bottom, it's got a dot and a dot. I'm thinking that's probably a later or earlier dated version. I'm hoping I can pick up one to match the others.

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Truss rod cover not original. (The one that's on now is shaped for a six-string. The lack of a "Made in USA" makes me think it's either modern or after-market. This could be costly to track down an original.)

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Questions for the pros:

The tuners all look original. However, six say "Kluson Deluxe" while six say "RIC Deluxe."

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The Klusons are mounted into the side of the head to accommodate the extra six strings. Has anyone ever seen the "RIC Deluxe" marked machines and should they be mixed with the Klusons?

From the photos, do the pickups look correct? I haven't opened this instrument up yet to take a look at the back of the pickups or the pot dates.

Thanks,

John


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 Post subject: Re: 1965 330/12: Opinions?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:59 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:07 am
Posts: 3806
Great guitar! Everything looks great to me. I'll comment specifically on the offset saddle. My 1981 360-12WB FG ckbd had that saddle on the D string. Evidently, the characteristics of the original Maxima strings intonated better with this saddle. The saddles are still the same after all these years, although slightly thinner. You can always purchase a replacement saddle and file it straight to match the rest of the saddles and intonate properly for the current set of RIC strings. I did. More than that, I took this saddle as a model, took another saddle blank, and filed an offset low E string saddle so the unison string intonates off the back of the saddle and the octave wound low E string intonates off the front of the saddle. It cured all intonation issues with the low E string.

Another thing I did was to take out the old screws and locking nuts, keep them in a safe place, and purchase the new stainless screws and springs so that it is easier to intonate the bridge and helps keep corrosion at bay.

Again, great find!


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 Post subject: Re: 1965 330/12: Opinions?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 959
Location: Texas
Hmm. I'm not sure about the tuners. From what I can tell, the tuners stamped "Ric Deluxe" are copies of Kluson tuners made by Rickenbacker when they started the Vintage series. So I would guess they're not original. The truss rod cover for that vintage should be clear, with "Rickenbacker" silkscreened on it, and a white background. It should also say "Made in U.S.A." parallel to the lettering in very small print. So yours might be an aftermarket copy of some kind. I wonder if you contact Rickenbacker if they'd let you trade it for a correct one. Still, it's a nice guitar, and a fun project, that needs only a few details to make it perfect! Congratulations!


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 Post subject: Re: 1965 330/12: Opinions?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:00 pm
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Location: Kansas
Clifton wrote:
The truss rod cover for that vintage should be clear, with "Rickenbacker" silkscreened on it, and a white background. It should also say "Made in U.S.A." parallel to the lettering in very small print. So yours might be an aftermarket copy of some kind. I wonder if you contact Rickenbacker if they'd let you trade it for a correct one.


You have to trade in at least half of a "genuine" Rickenbacker nameplate to purchase a replacement.


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 Post subject: Re: 1965 330/12: Opinions?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:51 am
Posts: 21
Thanks for your input. Sadly, the '67 that I sold had many of the missing parts that I need for this one, in particular the truss rod cover. There's one on eBay now at a fairly significant price. I'm weighing that.

I think my main concern is the RIC tuners. Those seem suspicious to me.

Again, thanks for your input.

John


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 Post subject: Re: 1965 330/12: Opinions?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:11 pm
Posts: 219
Location: Hamilton Ontario Canada
Is this EK 391??

_________________
Brian Morton
A Rickenbacker Fan in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
===============================
67 FG 625
74 JG 4000
76 JG 430
77 JG 620
77 JG 320
79 JG 4001
80 FG 620/12
81 BG 480
91 JG 610
02 BG 620

Amps -
78 TR7
83 TR25


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 Post subject: Re: 1965 330/12: Opinions?
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 959
Location: Texas
The Ric tuners are authentic reproductions manufactured by Rickenbacker to be used for the vintage series. They're modern copies of the Kluson Deluxe tuners. If they work well, I wouldn't worry about them too much. If you're really concerned about having all original hardware on your guitar, maybe you can find some 60's Klusons on Ebay.


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 Post subject: Re: 1965 330/12: Opinions? NEW Photos/more mysteries
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:51 am
Posts: 21
I had the chance to "look under the hood" tonight and what I found was a mixed bag.

On the plus side, the pots seem to be all original with late '65 date codes that would be in keeping with the late '65 serial number: EK436

On the negative side, someone went to town with a drill to widen the hole where the electronics fit in. This is the second classic Rick 12 I've had where this sort of hacking took place. Unlike the first one in which some major structural damage was done to make room for humbuckers, this cutting is at least hidden by the lower pickguard.

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Opening it up also led to a bunch more questions.

First, the pickups look original, but I'm curious as to why the front one has no magnets extending out the bottom like the rear one. Is this correct for this era or did someone put a different rear pickup in at some point? (The routing for the magnets looks like a home job as opposed to factory, but the finish around the hole looks like the opening was made at the factory.)

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When I removed the strings, I also had the chance to put a straight-edge on the fret board. With the ruler lying flat on the body end of the neck, I can see bowing starting at about the 13th fret from the body. When you get to the end by the nut, there's about an 1/8 inch of distance between the ruler and the fret. (Granted these frets have some pretty significant play wear, but not that much.)

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I'm thinking this bow is a result of the strings being removed and the truss rods over correcting. To confirm that, I'm going to get new strings tomorrow and once they are installed and in tune I'll recheck the bow.

So, with this latest info, does anyone have an opinion on any of these items?

Also, does anyone have an opinion on what this instrument is worth in this condition? We purchased it online and have the option to return after inspection. It was marketed as being in very good original condition, but the combination of the cutting, the belt rash, the irregular tuners, the incorrect truss rod cover and the missing parts on the saddle is less than original and certainly not very good, at least in my opinion.

Thanks, as always, for your input.


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 Post subject: Re: 1965 330/12: Opinions?
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:00 pm
Posts: 2949
Location: Kansas
The pickups in the neck and bridge positions appear to be "factory" correct for your guitar. Also, I've noticed that (dash and dot) knob combination on other guitars from the Rick factory made in the 60's so those could very well be all of the original knobs.


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 Post subject: Re: 1965 330/12: Opinions?
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:07 am
Posts: 3806
Yes, it's a shame about the drilling to expand the cavity.

BUT -- you are a very, very, very lucky man to have a pair of matching short-magnet neck, long-magnet bridge toasters. There are those out there who would sacrifice body parts for this pair of pickups.

Overall value? Debatable. Put it together and play it. If nothing else, with the neck adjusted, good setup and original electronics, you have a great player to be proud of.


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