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 Post subject: Re: Cost of a proper Maple-Glo refinish
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:52 am 
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Location: SF CA
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Figure about $40 per hour plus materials costs. A factory quality refin would likely cost more than the instrument is worth. And as Eric said, if your bass was originally a solid color, it would likely not be a candidate for a Mapleglo refin.


Wow. If I got $40.00 an hour plus materials, I'd probably have no customers...

As I've said before, I do these because I enjoy the work and the challenge. Although, as I've said, I don't quote prices in a public Forum, I will say that I probably make closer to $20.00 an hour for my refinishing work, for which I quote flat rates which include materials. I have yet to go back to a customer for a bump in my estimate.

I am doubly fortunate in that I have a "day job" which pays extremely well and gives me the freedom to pursue my refinishing passion.

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Rickenbackers: I love to play them. I enjoy the challenge of working on them. I love the way they sound.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost of a proper Maple-Glo refinish
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:05 am
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Location: Fullerton, CA
Quote:
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Figure about $40 per hour plus materials costs. A factory quality refin would likely cost more than the instrument is worth. And as Eric said, if your bass was originally a solid color, it would likely not be a candidate for a Mapleglo refin.


Wow. If I got $40.00 an hour plus materials, I'd probably have no customers...

As I've said before, I do these because I enjoy the work and the challenge. Although, as I've said, I don't quote prices in a public Forum, I will say that I probably make closer to $20.00 an hour for my refinishing work, for which I quote flat rates which include materials. I have yet to go back to a customer for a bump in my estimate.

I am doubly fortunate in that I have a "day job" which pays extremely well and gives me the freedom to pursue my refinishing passion.


>>> Heheheh. You work cheap. Down here in So. Cal it's $38-$42 to refinish Toyota and Honda fenders and bumpers, and that's on the low side. Add another $24-$28 per labor hour for materials, and in the Bay Area, it's way higher. i just refinned my 4001 in white, and I couldn't see doing ir for anybody for less that $500.



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 Post subject: Re: Cost of a proper Maple-Glo refinish
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:40 am 
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Location: Kansas City, Missouri

"Down here in So. Cal it's $38-$42 to refinish Toyota and Honda fenders and bumpers, and that's on the low side. Add another $24-$28 per labor hour for materials, and in the Bay Area, it's way higher. i just refinned my 4001 in white, and I couldn't see doing ir for anybody for less that $500."

That's why I take my guitars and basses to Pat Wilkins Guitars instead of South Bay Toyota to be refinished. I've never paid more than 450.00. He doesn't to the type of refin that Paul and Dale do, but that isn't what I need on my instruments either. However, that said, if I had a classic RIC, I'd send it to one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost of a proper Maple-Glo refinish
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:39 am 
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Location: Fullerton, CA
The AQMD in Calif. has been fighting paint manufacturers for years regarding VOC's, and the cost of paint materials is soaring. Full waterborne systems will eventually be mandated, and the costs will go even higher. I go into autobody shops several times a week, and I steer clear of the paint departments whenever possible. I don't know how toxic CV is to work with, but automotive basecoat / clearcoat systems contain isocyanates, which are incredibly toxic to humans. Fresh air supplies and body suits are a must. Having the proper safety equipment is incredibly costly. On the FINISHING section of the RIC factory tour, you see 3 different guys spraying bodies. They are wearing street clothes. Good auto painters in high production shops can make well over $100,000 a year, and they're worth every penny, so if you can find someone to do a refin from start to finish for $450, that's dirt cheap. Using jingle-jangle's 30 hr. labor figure, that works out to $15.00 per hour. If Pat Wilkins is shooting poly without a afterburner booth, he's probably breaking the law. If he's shooting it without a full body suit and a fresh air system, he's scrambling his eggs, and I haven't even gotten into all the details of handling and storage of solvents, strippers, and other airborne hazards that are encountered in the paint shop.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost of a proper Maple-Glo refinish
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:01 pm 
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Swold, you sound knowledgeable about these materials in an automotive setting. But you're off the mark where guitars are concerned.

It has to do with quantities. When I learned to spray-paint, everything was nitro and acrylic lacquer and enamels. Then a weird DuPont paint, Imron (often misspelled as "Emron", BTW) came on the market with tons of warnings.

I sprayed precision models for over 30 years, guitars for the same length, show cars for 12 years, before I did my first Rickenbacker.

In a downdraft booth, we never used any sort of protection except for a half-face respirator with purple cartridges.

Your caveats are definitely applicable in high-volume shops where the booth has little time to be cleared by air flow. Rick's guitars are sprayed in open-faced, back-draft booths. I've watched the air flow, and it is 99% away from the painter with virtually no backflow.

I work in a full-sized auto spray booth and have been doing so for a very long time. I wear a half-face mask. I've never had any health problems using this protection.

Note that the manufacturers of these coatings must cover their bases legally and address the worst case scenario when writing their cautionaries.

That having been said, let me restate that refinishing a Rickenbacker to factory standards is very specialized and labor-intensive and there is little commonality with an ordinary guitar refinish job such as is practiced by your local luthier.

_________________
Rickenbackers: I love to play them. I enjoy the challenge of working on them. I love the way they sound.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost of a proper Maple-Glo refinish
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:05 am
Posts: 201
Location: Fullerton, CA
Quote:
Swold, you sound knowledgeable about these materials in an automotive setting. But you're off the mark where guitars are concerned.

It has to do with quantities. When I learned to spray-paint, everything was nitro and acrylic lacquer and enamels. Then a weird DuPont paint, Imron (often misspelled as "Emron", BTW) came on the market with tons of warnings.

I sprayed precision models for over 30 years, guitars for the same length, show cars for 12 years, before I did my first Rickenbacker.

In a downdraft booth, we never used any sort of protection except for a half-face respirator with purple cartridges.

Your caveats are definitely applicable in high-volume shops where the booth has little time to be cleared by air flow. Rick's guitars are sprayed in open-faced, back-draft booths. I've watched the air flow, and it is 99% away from the painter with virtually no backflow.

I work in a full-sized auto spray booth and have been doing so for a very long time. I wear a half-face mask. I've never had any health problems using this protection.

Note that the manufacturers of these coatings must cover their bases legally and address the worst case scenario when writing their cautionaries.

That having been said, let me restate that refinishing a Rickenbacker to factory standards is very specialized and labor-intensive and there is little commonality with an ordinary guitar refinish job such as is practiced by your local luthier.


>>>> Ahh. DuPont Imron. I remember it well. I worked at a heavy duty truck shop in the early 80's. We used to shoot that stuff. It was really nasty, but it would dry rock hard and was very chip resistant. It's actually still around if I'm correct; a friend of mine painted his Cessna twin engined plane and helicopter with it.

I've been in the collision repair industry for over 25 years, and I've seen a lot of long time painters with serious health problems, so take care of yourself, our health is more important than anything, and is unfortunately, the thing we most take for granted.

Cheers.







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 Post subject: Re: Cost of a proper Maple-Glo refinish
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:10 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:00 pm
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Location: Aloha, OR
$450.00 to $600.00 plus shipping and insurance for a Mapleglo refinish. This is as close as it gets for a factory conversion finish...


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 Post subject: Re: Cost of a proper Maple-Glo refinish
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:00 pm
Posts: 558
Location: Arkansas
A very good point made by Eric, the Paint Supv above:
Quote:
One thing to consider as well would be that since your guitar was originally JG,then there's a chance it has wood that was unsuitable for a MG appearance-wise..I'd have an alternate finish in mind if this turns out to be the case.


I've often wondered about this. Dale or Paul, of the many Jet-Glo's and other colors you all have refinished, would most have been suitable for a maple-glo? What percent do you think wouldn't have?


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 Post subject: Re: Cost of a proper Maple-Glo refinish
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:00 pm
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Location: Aloha, OR
As you know I worked at the Factory in the early/mid 70's, and not all Jetglo finished instruments were blemished wood. The Mapleglo ones were of course hand picked to show off the grain figure of the wood. Many times excellent pieces of wood were covered up with a solid color to fill the demand of orders for certain instruments. Say 100 orders came thru for Jetglo or Azurglo, then the instruments that were in production would be painted to fill the orders. One other very important thing to keep in mind, less than 1 per cent of the Maple used had any discoloration or mineral stains in the wood. We would always try and cut around or remove the unwanted grain coloration. The Maple used is and was always #1 Eastern Hard Rock Maple.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost of a proper Maple-Glo refinish
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:32 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:00 pm
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Location: Arkansas
Thx for the info, Dale. -definitely opens the options up.


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