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 Post subject: Filling CV finish dent caused when impacted
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:10 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:00 pm
Posts: 135
Location: United States
Hi,
I have a damaged area on the front of a 330. The impacted area is depressed (edge of CD), but no base color damage. Is there a clear filler or product that will melt into the existing clearcoat finish to level-out the surface?

I looked to find this forum question, but searched the forums without success. I know you can drip thinner in the void for the varnish to melt into and attach to the finish. Adding drop betweet coats, bring the void to the surface, where it is sanded, polished. I'm not sure what I would do on a RIC's finish? If anything? Anyone?

-Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: Filling CV finish dent caused when impacted
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:20 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:51 am
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Location: Atlanta, GA
The clearcoat on a Rickenbacker is Coversion Varnish, sort of like urethane. There is nothing you can 'melt' into it which will give satisfactory results.

If you really want to smooth this out, you're going to have to work at it. Get some clear nail polish, and slightly overfill the dent. Once it dries completely, carefully sand it flat first with 1000 grit, followed by 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper, using Windex as a lubricant.

The area can then be returned to gloss with Scratch-X, and waxed with either Turtle Wax or Zymol.


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 Post subject: Re: Filling CV finish dent caused when impacted
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:00 pm
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Thaks Beatlefreak...

Yes, I heard Clear Nail Polish as well as Super Glue?

But I don't hear what brand Nail polish or glue that works the best?

I'm sure the chemical properties of Nail Polish brands vary (& Super Glue).

Anyone know brands to try and their successes?

-KS


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 Post subject: Re: Filling CV finish dent caused when impacted
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:00 pm
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Location: SF CA
The CV that Rick uses is quite "soft", meaning that it is not brittle so it will expand and contract with the wood better than thick polyester finishes which actually encase the wood, and when they crack, they REALLY let go!

The surface on Rick CV is also softer than other finishes, and it is softer than super glue. I've filled tiny dents in CV with super glue, and sanded things perfectly flush, and buffed, but I always get a very slight ring at the blend line.

Lacquer nail polish is much closer to Rick CV in hardness, and usually gives a better result. It doesn't hurt to sand the area around the dent with #1000 paper, very lightly; just enough to dull the area immediately around the dent for 1/16" (1.5mm) or so. This will buff out and helps the blend.

Differences in formulations? There must be hundreds where nail polish is concerned. Same with super glue: minor variations that should not affect this process a whole lot.

_________________
Rickenbackers: I love to play them. I enjoy the challenge of working on them. I love the way they sound.


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 Post subject: Re: Filling CV finish dent caused when impacted
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:00 pm
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Location: United States
Well I made my repairs to my 360 (I said 330 above) and the dings came out! I used advise from Beatlefreak and others and I'm delighted with the end results!

The two main dings are gone, but you see a small outline on the other if you look closely. The other ding vanished. I would agree that this is very difficult to do. I could probably do a better job the next one (330 damage). It is very difficult to sand down the ding without creating a valley in the CV. I finished wet sanding with 2000 using a foam sanding block. I see a slight flat spot where the dings used to be, but as I said, I'm delighted. The guitar was awful to look at with the damaged front.

I took everything off the guitar and used compound, polish and will be finishing with carnauba wax. I used a variety of 2" buffing pads (wool, yellow and black foam). I repaired the paint chips in the Black "R" and trapeze, cleaned the pots with Deoxit and made sure the ground wire was contacting the bridge assembly (earlier post). Cleaned the neck, polished the frets

I even carefully removed out the pots and electronics to buff out both pick-guards. That came out awesome!


Number one problem I had was taking the polish off with the cotton cloths. One Ernie Ball and one Jim Dunlop cotton cloth, (both new) put scratches in the paints finished polish stage!

I knew the micro-fibre would scratch. I couldn't figure where the light scratches were coming from? Both the cotton cloths are very soft, but I came to the conclusion that the CV is really easy to scratch!

The wife is on the way home with some diapers, I need to do A final polish buff and wax before stringing.

This is the first real cleaning and restoration since I bought this guitar. It was fun cleaning all the parts before reassembly, as you have access to all the tight areas.

I should be a strumming by 9:00 PM EST!

-Kevin




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 Post subject: Re: Filling CV finish dent caused when impacted
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:27 am 
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Cotton diapers, washed without fabric softener are the way to go. Cut these into 2" x 2" squares. Use one piece to apply wax, another to remove it, and a third to buff it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Filling CV finish dent caused when impacted
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:00 pm 
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Beatlefreak, you're channelling me pretty well! All of these are methods which I've presented on this Forum.

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Rickenbackers: I love to play them. I enjoy the challenge of working on them. I love the way they sound.


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 Post subject: Re: Filling CV finish dent caused when impacted
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:47 pm 
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For the record, many of the recommendations for refinishing small chips on Rickenbackers I have picked up from Paul Wilczynski, a.k.a Jingle_jangle, one of our resident luthiers / restorers / refinishers of Rickenbackers. These would include the clear acrylic nail polish as a substitute for the CV, the Windex as a sandpaper lubricant, and especially the Scratch-X and Zymöl treatment applied with cotton diapers for restoring the high gloss shine to the finish.


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 Post subject: Re: Filling CV finish dent caused when impacted
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:40 pm
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Location: London, England
A couple of days ago I had a similar hearstopping incident! I was sitting watching the telly when in slow motion my Ric pitched forward out of the guitar stand and crashed to the floor. (Okay, maybe it only felt like slow motion).

All was well except for a small dent - just in the claer coat - right in the middle of an otherwise clean front face. I nearly cried.

I've read the above and am 'umming and ahhing' over whether to try this. (Or should I just put a Peter Buck 'trucker girl' sticker over it? Okay, no that's silly)

On reflecting for a few days, I think I'll probably leave it for the moment. Not fixing the dent is the most easily reversable decision I guess! But what I was wondering was - can anyone give a 'long-term report' on the nail varnish fix? Does is start to look more obvious as the CV matures?



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 Post subject: Re: Filling CV finish dent caused when impacted
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:14 am 
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Location: Lafayette, IN
I've done a bunch of repairs on dents in acoustic guitars and must say the best way I have found by far is a lacquer stick and burn-in knife. Basically you use the knife to melt the lacquer stick until the dent is slightly overfilled. Then you use the burn in knife and pull it across the dent in several directions slowly to level it. When done properly there is virtually no sanding required (maybe 3-5 strokes with the paper). There is a product called "burn-in balm" that protects the area around the damage from the knife and excess lacquer. Professional furniture repairmen have used this technique for a long time with great results. I'm not sure how it would work with the Ric finish, but if it's a small area, I'm sure it would work as good as super glue.

The problem with superglue is that it is so hard it takes much more sanding to level it and it is very difficult to do without lowering the softer material surrounding it. The key to making the fix invisible is making sure the surface stays completely flat. At the very least you must use a dead-flat hard sanding block to ensure everything stays level.

Good luck!


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