Board index » Rick restoration from part to finish




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 89 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT?
 Post Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 1416
Location: SF CA
Quote:
I have a question if I may. I have a 330 with the high gain pickups. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that Rickenbacker uses the same wind for both the bridge and neck pickups. If so why is this? If so it does make for a hard time trying to get a good balance when going from one pickup to the other. Seems like it would be much easier to get more of a balance if the bridge pickup was wound a bit hotter and the neck pickup a bit weaker. That's how it is on my other two pickup guitars and I have no balance issues with those. As far as the blend knob goes it really didn't work to the effect that I wanted it to, so I turned it into a bass cut knob. It helped but again, not to the degree that I wanted.
I'm under this impression, too, and despite regular three times per year factory visits, I must confess that the topic hasn't come up in conversation and I haven't watched the pickups being wound, although the machine is standing right there on the floor. Perhaps John Hall can comment on this; if not, I'll check into it my next visit and see if I can unwind this issue.

_________________
Rickenbackers: I love to play them. I enjoy the challenge of working on them. I love the way they sound.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT?
 Post Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:15 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 4037
Location: Santa Ana, CA
Quote:
Kinda like Dupont Imron(.aircraft paint.) Once it sets and cures, forget about sanding it. One of the most durable paints available.
Not similar at all but definately durable. The gloss on Imron has a different kind of look though- nice for aircraft but not so nice for guitars
Quote:
One major problem with hard finishes on wood..The harder they are, the easier they are subject to cracking/checking. Nice finish if all you are going to do is look at your instrument and drool
Not as much as nitrocellulose though . . . is that what you figure owners of nitro-finished guitars do?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT?
 Post Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 1416
Location: SF CA
I would add that Imron was specifically formulated for real temperature extremes, from about 200° F to -100° F, such as are found on the surface skin of aluminum-skinned aircraft. There's some real expansion/contraction.

The surface gloss of Imron--which is not made to color sand/flat and buff out--is often referred to as "zombie-shine"--glossy from even a couple of feet, but not suitable for products where the eye gets really close--like guitars.

The size of an object has a lot to do with how closely we inspect it, and the judgments we form from those inspections. Nobody expects a battleship (even a new one) to shine like a new car. No one expects a new car to have the level of fit and finish as an item as relatively inexpensive as an espresso machine or vacuum cleaner.

A guitar is closer to an appliance, than to a new car, in scale. So it needs to be very well put together and finished in order to satisfy a critical eye. And the more money a guitar costs, the nicer it needs to be.

Fender Squiers are amazing value for money, from this standpoint. But it should be remembered that Fender's credo is to do as much of the work on machines as possible, then bolt the things together--a perfect formula for low-buck stuff in which well-adjusted machines do the "perfecting" of each individual part, and the final putting together of the object is done by semi-skilled labor to an exacting system and specification that's determined out of their control.

Ricks are amazing value for the opposite reasons--they use skilled labor to spend lots of time hand-fitting and hand-finishing a guitar that's expensive to replace even while it's being built, because of the set-necks and neck-through construction, which happens (again, skilled labor force) early in the assembly process. You can't just pick up another neck if things don't fit or if you strip a neck screw (no neck screws in a Rick; glue is permanent, for all practical purposes).

As opposed to Fender, where the choices are pre-made by the engineers who set up the production lines, choices at Rick are often the province of the person actually doing the work or his/her supervisor. But most of RIC's workforce are long-time employees; they've seen just about everything and have solutions to most problems in production.

The CV used by RIC is flexible and "ductile" (it expands and contracts readily, given a reasonable amount of time). Same with the stuff I use. When I fit a Rick acoustic bridge, I cut around the bridge footprint after the top has been flatted and buffed, and glue the bridge into place with 100% contact between the bridge and top (even Martin merely scrapes the varnish off--leading to a 60-80% contact patch between the two). Anyway I peel the varnish off in one piece. It's usually about .007" thick, and can be folded and strewtched like a piece of thin plastic (that's what it is), yet it takes a high gloss and remains flexible and durable for decades.

_________________
Rickenbackers: I love to play them. I enjoy the challenge of working on them. I love the way they sound.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT?
 Post Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:26 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 4037
Location: Santa Ana, CA
Quote:
The surface gloss of Imron--which is not made to color sand/flat and buff out--is often referred to as "zombie-shine"--glossy from even a couple of feet, but not suitable for products where the eye gets really close--like guitars.
"Zombie-shine" is a nearly perfect description of what I was trying to describe. It looks great on the side of a JetRanger but terrible on a guitar.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT?
 Post Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:58 am
Posts: 1328
Location: En Zed
Ok, on the subject of finishing, I know it's been stated before that CV is just not something that you can do at home. I realize this is referring to your average person who might think it's something like using spray paint on their lawn furniture.

In my case, I have considerable experience with automotive finishes (mostly Acrylic Enamels) and have a 40'x60' shop with all the air/filters/dryers you could want. When spraying vehicles, I typically set up a spray booth with filtered positive ventilation, and have various respirators, etc. (just filter types, no MSA type with a separate air supply). I've also got a fair amount of experience with Polyurethane resins, though mostly with casting and machining them.

Anyway, I'd like to "play around" with refinishing a few instruments I've got (nothing that would matter if they got totally screwed up) and think it'd be fun to learn about CV type finishes. So, just what all is needed to equipment-wise, etc. to do CV finishes?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT?
 Post Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:24 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 604
Location: Rickenbacker Headquarters
Fwiw, the conversion varnish and other "thing" that we use on our instruments for topcoats and sealers will soon give way to UV cureable coatings. CV is easy to work with and leaves a great finish, but it also requires A LOT of air drying to gas out enough solvents to sand the guitars. That means a ton of product just sitting in the queue waiting to get processed. That's 1950's technology anyways!

UV products require virtually no air drying, cure within a few minutes, and leave a much more durable topcoat than cv (less risk of a sand or buffthrough). They also eliminate most of the shrinkage you would otherwise see on our instruments over time. This will be especially apparent on the JGs and Mids.

One can put a guitar together in the mill, finish it, and have it all assembled and ready to ship the same day!

You may not know it, but some of you already have UV guitars in your hands!

Oh, did I mention that they will NEVER yellow...?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT?
 Post Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 266
Location: Columbia, SC
Ben, would my 2008 660FG be one of those? Gorgeous finish and the flamey maple underneath really helps too.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT?
 Post Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:45 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 604
Location: Rickenbacker Headquarters
Perhaps, the UV filler tends to really bring out the figure on the maple.

You'll know by the amount of sinking of the topcoats into the underlying coats you observe, which should be minimal at worst...


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT?
 Post Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:00 pm
Posts: 1330
Location: Long Beach, California
That sounds like great news Ben! Thanks for the update on the advance in painting technology. It sounds like the new UV paint will help reduce the backlog.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT?
 Post Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:25 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 604
Location: Rickenbacker Headquarters
And improve the quality. Better quality at a faster rate, just doesn't seem right. Not to mention it also dramatically reduces voc emissions into the air, which is better for the entire community!


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 89 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

Board index » Rick restoration from part to finish


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ
X